Europe

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

How many foreign owned bases are there in America?

Actually, there are foreign units stationed in America. But that is irrelevant, because when most of these bases were established, who was going to defend who?

How many checks are in place to prevent American Military from taking action?

NATO comes immediately to mind.

Except, the UK has both by America... I definitely see an Alliance of equals here...

Ask America to leave her bases if you want. You're aware, also, that America would come to the aid of Britain as Britain has come to the aid of America, right?

It is an alliance. America is more powerful than Britain, but Britain is no puppet of America.

[LittleGrizzly]

Of course Britain will have a part, but now Britain controls all of its foreign policy. Under Europe it will control less than a twentieth.

At the moment we have full control over this decision. Follow American policy or not. Under EU we would have control of less than a twentieth of actual policy making rather than full control over whether to follow a bigger countrys policy...

You realize that a unified Europe still won't have a say in America's decisions, right?

Its not a say in America's decisions i want, though we could much more easily persuade them to our views as a unified nation, or at the very least not be small states swayed easily by the much bigger states (USA or in future China)

Not the point.

So when you said "making us all the same is not a con ?" in response to medilil's pro EU post you didn't actually mean that a single european goverment would make us all the same ?

[Beskar]

Actually, there are foreign units stationed in America. But that is irrelevant, because when most of these bases were established, who was going to defend who?

Troops do visit America but there are no foreign bases on American soil. So my point still stands. Also, who will defend them from America? For some-one who apparently dislikes the idea of outsider control, you have no problems with foreign military bases all over your country.

NATO comes immediately to mind.

You mean the treaty which is basically controlled by America, which was created against the threat of the USSR? I see much resistance there from the American Satellite club.

It is an alliance. America is more powerful than Britain, but Britain is no puppet of America.

It is a puppet, it is pretty much a well known fact, hell, it's been in our own media enough times the cartoons of Blair and Bush for example. Blair will got the lapdog award from Bush himself.

Just google image search "Blair Bush" and you will see lots of results.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

At the moment we have full control over this decision. Follow American policy or not. Under EU we would have control of less than a twentieth of actual policy making rather than full control over whether to follow a bigger countrys policy...

You know full well that isn't the case.

Its not a say in America's decisions i want, though we could much more easily persuade them to our views as a unified nation, or at the very least not be small states swayed easily by the much bigger states (USA or in future China)

You don't have to be swayed, controlled, or unified.

So when you said "making us all the same is not a con ?" in response to medilil's pro EU post you didn't actually mean that a single european goverment would make us all the same ?

People aren't the same. I don't want to run the risk of us becoming the same.

Troops do visit America but there are no foreign bases on American soil. So my point still stands.

There are no bases as such, but there are foreign installations and forces stationed in America (by the way, America only has bases in 39 nations, not the 130 that you claimed).

Also, who will defend them from America? For some-one who apparently dislikes the idea of outsider control, you have no problems with foreign military bases all over your country.

I'm not actually a fan of the bases, but they don't intrude on our sovereignty because they are there on our perogative.

You mean the treaty which is basically controlled by America, which was created against the threat of the USSR? I see much resistance there from the American Satellite club.

Doesn't change the fact that we are in NATO out of our own free will. And America still doesn't dictate our foreign policy.

It is a puppet, it is pretty much a well known fact, hell, it's been in our own media enough times the cartoons of Blair and Bush for example. Blair will got the lapdog award from Bush himself.

Blair is not Britain. Britain had the choice to make.

You're ignoring the point. Britain has the sole and complete choice to make where it wants to go with foreign policy. Whether Britain wants to go with America or not is entirely Britain's decision. If Britain follows, it follows - but it was Britain's decision to follow if it did. In the EU, Britain simply wouldn't have this choice.

[Beskar]

There are no bases as such, but there are foreign installations and forces stationed in America (by the way, America only has bases in 39 nations, not the 130 that you claimed).

39 were listed, the rest come under "Other states" which is around 300 installations.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

In addition to my earlier post, many nations, from Britain to Canada, have had or have bases in Germany. America is by no means the only one. Also, today in Germany there are more former than current US Army bases.

Then there is Russia, which has military bases in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, the Ukraine and so on.

39 were listed, the rest come under "Other states" which is around 300 installations.

From your link:

The real property portfolio managed by the Department of Defense encompasses a worldwide footprint to include all 50 States, seven U.S. territories, and 39 foreign countries...

[LittleGrizzly]

You know full well that isn't the case.

It pretty much is, we can make some small scale decisions on our own, maybe a bit more aid or aid for something specific. But in terms of real foriegn policy actions there's very little we can do by ourselves, this usually leaves us just going along with what America's doing... With the EU we could have a very meaningful foriegn policy, completely dictated in our terms rather than by a larger power...

Democracy FTW!

You don't have to be swayed, controlled, or unified.

No we don't, but we usually end up swayed, or controlled. So we may as well unify and control our own destiny rather than be swayed or controlled by outside powers..

People aren't the same. I don't want to run the risk of us becoming the same.

I agree with the first statement. The second statement is strange... what risk is there of us becoming the same if every single goverment in exisistance presides over people who are all different...

What about the EU goverment that doesn't exsist in a single goverment anywhere else in the world will make people the same ?!?

Whereas say the German goverment cleverly avoids making all Germans the same...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

But in terms of real foriegn policy actions there's very little we can do by ourselves

But as a sovereign nation you can change that by yourselves.

With the EU we could have a very meaningful foriegn policy, completely dictated in our terms rather than by a larger power...

No, your entire foreign policy will be dictated by a larger power - the EU. The point is that right now you have a choice whether you want to go with America or not, and under the EU you will have none.

No we don't, but we usually end up swayed, or controlled. So we may as well unify and control our own destiny rather than be swayed or controlled by outside powers..

Unification by definition is giving your destiny to someone else. Right now you can take whatever course you want as a sovereign nation. Under a common foreign policy you would have some influence, but no more than that.

Whereas say the German goverment cleverly avoids making all Germans the same...

It hasn't. But in most cases people value the nation over the region. For me, the nation is the ideal level, and anything above it is too much.

[Beskar]

Admittedly, I googled around and it mentioned different kinds of numbers, that one seemed constant.