Europe

[Beskar]

ah, so the justification is that because science fictions world government is inevitable, best we get started quick so we have Ian M Banks benign utopia rather than David Wingroves authoritarian dystopia?

Just saying "science fiction" just makes your point invalid as it means you do not know your history or what history is being made. It isn't Europe that is coming together, there is also things such as NAFTA which will eventually be taking a similar route. Did you even know they wrote a new American constitution in the 1970's? It wasn't put into place, but you could probably find it laying about.

[Furunculus]

Just saying "science fiction" just makes your point invalid as it means you do not know your history or what history is being made.

It isn't Europe that is coming together, there is also things such as NAFTA which will eventually be taking a similar route.

Did you even know they wrote a new American constitution in the 1970's? It wasn't put into place, but you could probably find it laying about.

you might think so.

last time i checked NAFTA wasn't a political confederation, it was a free-trade bloc. sounds great.

why do you mention this, is it because you think i am against change? i'm not against change, i am against foolish change.

[Beskar]

last time i checked NAFTA wasn't a political confederation, it was a free-trade bloc. sounds great.

So was Europe at first, how did that turn out?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So was Europe at first, how did that turn out?

Authoritarian and undemocratic. Europe was always meant to be a federal project, that has been admitted a few times by the French and Germans. At the same time, integration has always proceeded at a fairly even pace.

This is largely because Eurocrats see federalism as both desireable and inevitable. It is not necessarily either.

[Furunculus]

So was Europe at first, how did that turn out?

i don't think that NAFTA arose from the ashes of WW2 as a project chiefly architected to prevent WW3 by its two biggest cheer leaders (the guilty conscience and unwilling host), via the method of ever deeper union.

so i'm not really sure where you are going with this?
i don't believe that free-trade blocs like NAFTA are bad.
i don't believe regional forums like ASEAN are bad.
i don't believe collective defense pacts like NATO are bad.

i do think that Britain, on balance, will be worse off within in a federal europe.
i do think that governance in Britain will become less representative in a federal europe.