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  1. #271
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Re-read this post again -

    It says: 'Cucumbers do not have to be straight. There are grading rules, which were called for by representatives from the industry to enable buyers in one country to know what quality and quantity they would get when purchasing a box, unseen, from another country. Nothing is banned under these rules: they simply help to inform traders of particular specifications. The EU Single Market rules are identical to pre-existing standards set down both by the UN/OECD and the UK'.

    The tabloids and the British press turned this into a deformed, crooked alternate reality. In their world, fruit classification and legally enforcable quality guarantees are about the prescription of the curvature of cucumbers.

    Here's a thought: if there is, say, food and health safety regulation that prevents the use of rotten, black bananas from being processed into food anywhere in the European food chain, does that mean this is about 'bananas being the right shade of yellow'? No, of course not.
    And neither are industry categories of product quality a prescription of the curvature of cucumbers. It distorts reality beyond recognition.
    Here's what went into effect: Link under 'marketing standards'
    Purple Potatoes for example, would simply be labelled "Purple Potatoes" as it is a different product. That is it.

    Please stop preaching utter nonsense and stupidity from the Sun or Daily Mail. If you want to read anything right-wing inclined at least make it more respectable like the Telegraph or use other legitimate news sources such as the Guardian, The Independent or BBC news.

    It is always embarrassing when foreigners know more about the issues then self-proclaimed locales.
    Last edited by Beskar; 07-02-2009 at 22:47.
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  2. #272
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Nothing is banned under these rules: they simply help to inform traders of particular specifications.
    Sorry Louis, but that's wrong.

    The old rules did ban all fruits and veggies that did not conform to the regulations. Here is what the responsible Commissioner had to say:

    12 Nov, 2008 - Rules governing the size and shape of fruit and vegetables will be consigned to history after European Union Member States today voted on Commission proposals to repeal specific marketing standards for 26 types of fruit and vegetables.
    Daily News Alerts

    The Commission's initiative to get rid of these standards is a major element in its ongoing efforts to streamline and simplify EU rules and cut red tape. For 10 types of fruit and vegetables, including apples, strawberries and tomatoes, marketing standards will remain in place. But even for these 10, Member States could for the first time allow shops to sell products that don't respect the standards, as long as they are labelled to distinguish them from 'extra', 'class I' and 'class II' fruit. In other words, the new rules will allow national authorities to permit the sale of all fruit and vegetables, regardless of their size and shape.

    "This marks a new dawn for the curvy cucumber and the knobbly carrot," said Mariann Fischer Boel, Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development. "It's a concrete example of our drive to cut unnecessary red tape. We simply don't need to regulate this sort of thing at EU level. It is far better to leave it to market operators. And in these days of high food prices and general economic difficulties, consumers should be able to choose from the widest range of products possible. It makes no sense to throw perfectly good products away, just because they are the 'wrong' shape."

    Linky
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  3. #273
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Re-read this post again -



    Purple Potatoes for example, would simply be labelled "Purple Potatoes" as it is a different product. That is it.

    Please stop preaching utter nonsense and stupidity from the Sun or Daily Mail. If you want to read anything right-wing inclined at least make it more respectable like the Telegraph or use other legitimate news sources such as the Guardian, The Independent or BBC news.

    It is always embarrassing when foreigners know more about the issues then self-proclaimed locales.
    This from the man who thought the King of England was a vassal of the King of France, and that the Normans had an empire stretching to Antioch.

    Look, there are two issues here.

    1. Produce not meeting the EU's very strict criteria not being able to be sold comercially, and going to waste even though it is perfectly good.

    2. It being illegal to sell unclassified goods. You see, in order to sell something in the EU, it has to have an EU approved standard. With rare varrieties, the EU simply doesn't bother to rate the product, it can't be graded and therefore can't be sold. This is particually a problem with obscure herbs, as HRH Prince Charles highlighted a couple of years ago, and that made BBC news, by the way.

    As to the reading of the Papers, you should know I read the Telegraph, because I think the country is run by another country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
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  4. #274

    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Those rules actually endangered rare species because they are meant to look different (purple pottatoes), and therefore you can't sell them.
    Yeah right.
    So which EU countries are the biggest producers of these purple praties for sale and consumption in the EU which they can't sell in the EU?
    Which non EU countries are the biggest exporters of these purple spuds to the EU where they can't sell them?
    If you want a purple potato go to a decent greengrocer

  5. #275
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    Yeah right.
    So which EU countries are the biggest producers of these purple praties for sale and consumption in the EU which they can't sell in the EU?
    Which non EU countries are the biggest exporters of these purple spuds to the EU where they can't sell them?
    If you want a purple potato go to a decent greengrocer
    I must be wrong then, far be it from me to argue with an Irishman about spuds.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  6. #276
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    1)This from the man who thought the King of England was a vassal of the King of France
    2) that the Normans had an empire stretching to Antioch.
    Two seperate issues here.

    1) I never said that, it was others in the thread that said that William was a Vassal of the King of France. In other words, you incorrectly attributed a statement to me.

    2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:No...century-fr.png

    Please fairly represent what I am saying.
    Last edited by Beskar; 07-03-2009 at 00:40.
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  7. #277
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    I must be wrong then, far be it from me to argue with an Irishman about spuds.
    taters weren't regulated by Brussels to begin with.

    The 36 regulated veggie and fruit products were: apricots, artichokes, asparagus, aubergines (eggplant), avocadoes, beans, Brussels sprouts, carrots, cauliflowers, cherries, courgettes (zucchini), cucumbers, cultivated mushrooms, garlic, hazelnuts in shell, headed cabbage, leeks, melons, onions, peas, plums, ribbed celery, spinach, walnuts in shell, water melons, chicory, apples, citrus fruit, kiwi fruit, lettuces, peaches and nectarines, pears, strawberries, sweet peppers, table grapes and tomatoes. Only the last ten remain regulated as before.
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  8. #278
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Two seperate issues here.

    1) I never said that, it was others in the thread that said that William was a Vassal of the King of France. In other words, you incorrectly attributed a statement to me.

    2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:No...century-fr.png

    Please fairly represent what I am saying.
    You're right, you actually thought Normandy was a seperate country to France. which is just as wrong.

    Adrian: Yes, alright. I was trying to make a general point about what I see as absurd regulation and potattoes were the first tubar to come to mind to illustrate said point. As an aside, I can't find purple spuds for love nor money.
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  9. #279
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II View Post
    Sorry Louis, but that's wrong.
    Europe ought to ban pesky reporters and their meddlesome ways.
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  10. #280
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    If no one can find purple spuds, it isn't Europe, it is called Market forces, aka, no one is buying them therefore they aren't sold, thus they aren't stocked.

    Apply for them at your local supermarket or greengrocers or even the town market.
    Last edited by Beskar; 07-03-2009 at 01:53.
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  11. #281
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Europe ought to ban pesky reporters and their meddlesome ways.
    I know, I plead for it in my column every week. But somehow I have fallen into disrepute with the other leftist media that control this world, manipulate peoples' perceptions and force their slanted leftwing views on them.

    In other words, nobody listens.
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  12. #282
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II View Post
    nobody listens.
    Then stop with your use of sources, original sources, refusal of hearsay and long attention span in a bid to get to the bottom of things, you amateur.

    Aim for the holy grail of modern newspaper reporting: the column. Quick opinion over hard fact, custum build to fill the appetite of readers eager to get their existing opinion confirmed.
    Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 07-03-2009 at 04:09.
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  13. #283
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Then stop using sources, original sources, hearsay and a long attention span in a bid to get to the bottom of things, you amateur.

    Aim for the holy grail of modern newspaper reporting: the column. Quick opinion over hard fact, custum build to fill the appetite of readers eager to get their existing opinion confirmed.
    Like telling everyone that if there is even a slight curve in a cucumber, it won't be sold forced on us by the evil EU?
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  14. #284

    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    taters weren't regulated by Brussels to begin with.
    And you don't get subsidies or quotas for spuds

  15. #285
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Then stop using sources, original sources, hearsay and a long attention span in a bid to get to the bottom of things, you amateur.
    Here I was thinking people wanted to be informed. How stoopid can you get?
    Last edited by Adrian II; 07-03-2009 at 02:31.
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  16. #286
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    http://www.euractiv.com/en/future-eu...article-183563

    "When the Irish people rejected the Lisbon treaty a year ago, the initial reactions ranged from one of shock to horror, to aghastness and temper and vexation," said McCreevy, the EU's internal market commissioner.

    "On the other hand, I think all the politicians of Europe would have known quite well that if a similar question had been put to their electorate in a referendum the answer in 95% of countries would have been 'no' as well," McCreevy told a meeting of accountants in Dublin.

  17. #287
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Well that didn't last long:
    A final update on the Tory woes for today - Edward McMillan-Scott has been booted out of the European Conservatives and Reformists group. Hardly a surprise, given that he trashed party discipline and has accused the group leader - Michal Kaminski - of a neo-fascist past. Mr Kaminski denies that and describes himself as a "convinced conservative, a convinced democrat". He says in his youth he was a member of an anti-communist group which - after he left - then became allied to the extreme right. Mr Kaminski described himself as a friend of Israel who has been attacked by members of the far right for being pro-Jewish.

    So the day ends with the Tories no longer in control of their own group and a former Conservative leader stripped of the party whip and drummed out of the group. Who'd have thought it? Crazy days in Strasbourg!
    Yeah, who'd have thought, eh?

    Best of luck to the others the coming years!
    'Convinced conservatists'.


    ~~-~~-~~<<oOo>>~~-~~-~~


    Also, the Icelandic parliament is voting about a future EU application as we speak. Oh please, oh please.
    Despite their recent flirt with uncontrolled neo-liberalism that left the country bankrupt, Iceland is still a sober, sensible nation. It would make for a great addition. Give us another Luxembourg!
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  18. #288
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Well that didn't last long:
    Yeah, who'd have thought, eh?

    Best of luck to the others the coming years!
    'Convinced conservatists'.


    ~~-~~-~~<<oOo>>~~-~~-~~


    Also, the Icelandic parliament is voting about a future EU application as we speak. Oh please, oh please.
    Despite their recent flirt with uncontrolled neo-liberalism that left the country bankrupt, Iceland is still a sober, sensible nation. It would make for a great addition. Give us another Luxembourg!
    on the subject of ECR from Daniel Hannan:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...polish-leader/
    British Conservatives can be proud today: ours is the first Group in the European Parliament to elect an MEP from an accession state as its leader. None of the Groups which drone on about their commitment to the European ideal can claim as much.

    Michal Kaminski, of Poland’s Law and Justice Party, is my age. We went into politics at the same time, when we were in our mid-twenties. We each have two little girls of similar ages. We’re both conservatives: Euro-sceptics, free-marketeers and Atlanticists. But we might have spent our early lives on different planets. I grew up during the réveil national of the Thatcher years. Michal’s early life was spent in an occupied country. Every day, he lived with the moral shabbiness, the material squalor, the thousand petty lies of Jaruzelski-era Poland. When Michal was small, his father defected to Canada. They met once, in Michal’s teenage years, in Cuba – the only state to which they could both get visas. Michal’s father urged him to defect, but Michal replied that he wanted one day to sit as a conservative in a free Polish Sejm. A few years later, he did, although his father was sadly no longer alive to see it.

    That such a man, having led such a life, should now lead our Group, does more for European unity than any number of federalist declarations. The Europe that Michal and I believe in is one united by the spread of freedom and democracy, by commerce, by the actions of independent citizens. This is a world away from the Europe they want in Brussels, united by rules and regulations, by institutions and bureaucracies, by anthems and flags.

    When Michal made his first speech as an MEP, he hymned the praises of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, to the unfeigned horror of the EPP. He is, in short, the closest thing to a British Tory outside the Carlton Club.
    In a sense, Michal’s election was accidental. It had originally been planned that he would take a parliamentary Vice-Presidency while a Briton became the first leader of the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR). But my erstwhile colleague Edward Macmillan-Scott decided to have a go at the Vice-Presidency himself, which upset all the calculations (Edward lost the Conservative Whip in consequence).

    This left Michal in an embarrassing situation. He is well known in Poland as a long-standing advocate of the new conservative Group. Yet he had been denied office by a renegade British Tory.

    At this stage, the two British candidates for the leadership, Timothy Kirkhope and Geoffrey Van Orden, displayed extraordinary magnanimity, withdrawing their candidacies in Michal’s favour.

    I know that Timothy, in particular, has come in for some criticism from ConHome readers, a lot of it very unfair. His behaviour over this episode made the rest of us proud to be British Tories. It was hardly his fault that Edward Macmillan-Scott had decided to run. But an injury had been done to our Polish friends by a British Conservative, and he took it upon himself to make restitution by ceding the Group leadership. He put the interests of Conservatism above his own ambitions.
    In a funny way, Macmillan-Scott has done us a great favour. No one can now argue that the ECR is a Tory front with a couple of minor parties added on for decoration. We have a leader who, while a sturdy Polish patriot, is also a committed Anglophile and Thatcherite. And the graciousness with which both Geoffrey and Timothy acted has created a mood common purpose among British Tory MEPs that I can’t remember in ten years. The best is yet to come.
    On the latter, why does it mean so much to you that Iceland should join, but not Turkey?
    Last edited by Furunculus; 07-16-2009 at 15:46.
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  19. #289
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    on the subject of ECR from Daniel Hannan:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...polish-leader/
    Ah, Hannan. Always at the forefront of things.

    Erm...the new president of the entire European Parliament is Polish. Which makes the chest-thumping about electing a Pole a bit moot.

    More importantly...Hannan's man is a sidekick of the nutcase Kaczinski twins. So this should provide for years of entertainment to come: the Brits being led now by some extremist Pole.


    Meanwhile, the European Parliament, unlike the British conservatives, is headed by a democratic Pole instead of a (former?) fascist anti-Semitic one.

    Jerzy Buzek is in the centre-right European People's Party (EPP)

    The first session of the new European Parliament in Strasbourg has been dominated by two issues: the election of Jerzy Buzek as its president and the arrival of the first far right MEPs from the UK.

    Jerzy Buzek is the living embodiment of what many people think the European Union is all about.
    He was born in Poland, in a border region which changed hands between Czechoslovakia, Poland and Germany in the chaos of World War II.

    He ended the war living and working in communist Poland - a regime that he eventually helped to bring down as a member of the anti-bureaucratic trade union Solidarity. Eventually, he became prime minister of Poland and now, aged 69, has been sworn in as the first president of the European Parliament from the former communist East.
    It has been a remarkable journey for him and for Europe, the significance of which can perhaps best be judged by a line from Mr Buzek's speech of thanks.

    "Once upon a time I hoped to be a member of the Polish Parliament, in a free Poland," he said.
    "Today I have become the president of the European Parliament, something I could never have
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  20. #290
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Erm...the new president of the entire European Parliament is Polish. Which makes the chest-thumping about electing a Pole a bit moot.

    More importantly...Hannan's man is a sidekick of the nutcase Kaczinski twins. So this should provide for years of entertainment to come: the Brits being led now by some extremist Pole.


    Meanwhile, the European Parliament, unlike the British conservatives, is headed by a democratic Pole instead of a (former?) fascist anti-Semitic one.
    yeah, i read that too.

    Whatever, he sits on a platform I and the conservatives agree with, which is an anti-federal one unlike the EPP.

    He is facist and anti-semitic, explain?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  21. #291
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    I haven't forgotten this thread, and when I have time I will reply to the responses to my last post.

  22. #292
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    If no one can find purple spuds, it isn't Europe, it is called Market forces, aka, no one is buying them therefore they aren't sold, thus they aren't stocked.
    Uhm.....

    Now, I may be thinking of a different shade of purple here, but.... One of the two most common potato versions here in Norway, is purple. At least what I would call purple.... Or maybe red or pink....
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  23. #293
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    Whatever, he sits on a platform I and the conservatives agree with, which is an anti-federal one unlike the EPP.
    The conservatives lost out against the Polish radicals. The British conservatives are now led by a Pole whose views are best described as 'read Krook's posts'.

    It is a complete laugh. An embarrasment to the UK conservatives. They are no longer in control of their own party.

    They tried to get in bed with a pan-European nationalist alliance, against the better judgement of many in their ranks. The leader of the more doubtful part of the conservatives has now been ousted by the Poles. The other UK conservatives are towing the line and are prepared to be lackeys to their neo/post fascist continental overlords.

    This was on day one of their new party. Well done.

    Here is, of all papers, the Daily Torygraph:

    Tory-MEPs-led-by-Pole-with-extremist-past.html

    Tory MEPs 'led by Pole with extremist past'

    David Cameron's Conservative MEPs have been forced to surrender the leadership of their new Eurosceptic group to a controversial Polish Right-winger who faces allegations that he has an extremist past. In order to prevent the European Conservative and Reformist group (ECR) falling apart on the first day of its existence, the Tories handed over its chairmanship to Michal Tomasz Kaminski, a senior figure in the Polish Law and Justice Party (PiS) and a close aide to Lech Kaczynski, Poland's Right-wing president.

    Timothy Kirkhope, the leader of Conservative MEPs, was forced to drop his own plan, supported by the party leadership, to stand for the post after a Tory rebel beat Mr Kaminski in elections for the European Parliament's vice-presidency.
    #
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    Edward McMillan-Scott was promptly expelled from the European Conservatives for defeating Mr Kaminski. Following the vote, furious Polish MEPs demanded control of ECR as compensation.
    The situation is deeply embarrassing for the Tories.

    Mr Kaminski will now be the public face of the new Conservative grouping as allegations that his political past has involved links to Right-wing extremists have surfaced.
    According to the office of the National Rebirth of Poland (NOP), a far-Right Polish party regarded by the US State Department as anti-Semitic, Mr Kaminski was a former student member. Mr Kaminski admitted to The Daily Telegraph on Wednesday that he had been an NOP member but only under Communism, "between 1987 and 1989". "It was a time I am very proud of, when at the age of 15, I decided to become a member of the underground against the Communist dictatorship. At the time this was a patriotic youth organisation not anti-Semitic or Nazi," he said.
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  24. #294
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    To which I would like to add:

    This is not only an embarrasment to the UK conservatives. It is a situation of concern for the whole of the UK.

    One of the two largest political parties that represent UK interests in Europe, is now taken over by Polish nationalists.

    Who will see to British interests in Brussles?
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
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  25. #295
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Mr Kaminski admitted to The Daily Telegraph on Wednesday that he had been an NOP member but only under Communism, "between 1987 and 1989". "It was a time I am very proud of, when at the age of 15, I decided to become a member of the underground against the Communist dictatorship. At the time this was a patriotic youth organisation not anti-Semitic or Nazi," he said.
    Says it all, doesn't it? Let the man be, this is a big deal about nothing.

  26. #296
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    1. The conservatives lost out against the Polish radicals. The British conservatives are now led by a Pole whose views are best described as 'read Krook's posts'.

    2. It is a complete laugh. An embarrasment to the UK conservatives. They are no longer in control of their own party.

    3. They tried to get in bed with a pan-European nationalist alliance, against the better judgement of many in their ranks. The leader of the more doubtful part of the conservatives has now been ousted by the Poles. The other UK conservatives are towing the line and are prepared to be lackeys to their neo/post fascist continental overlords.

    4. Here is, of all papers, the Daily Torygraph:

    Tory-MEPs-led-by-Pole-with-extremist-past.html
    1. what about krooks posts? were they in this thread, in response to what we are discussing here? is krook even a signed up member of NCU? would it matter if he was? has Kaminski ever stated the same things as krook? why bring krook into this?

    2. it's teething troubles caused by an element of the conservative party that was against the change before it happened, the cons are better off with him out.

    3. roflmao. they >got< into bed with an anti-federalist alliance, and a the actions of a stupid tory resulted in a pole leading the party, but so what, he's a member of that party and subscribed to views i can tolerate, unlike the EPP.

    4. good article, nice to see the tory-graph refraining from varnishing the truth.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  27. #297
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    "It was a time I am very proud of, when at the age of 15, I decided to become a member of the underground against the Communist dictatorship. At the time this was a patriotic youth organisation not anti-Semitic or Nazi,"
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    Says it all, doesn't it? Let the man be, this is a big deal about nothing.
    "Someone who has not lived his life under dictatorship should very careful of accusing people who were in the anti-communist underground. I was brave enough to raise the banner."

    agreed EMFM, and i have a lot of sympathy with the above view, given that it is relevant to my own youth, and alien to most others.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 07-17-2009 at 09:39.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  28. #298
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    To which I would like to add:

    This is not only an embarrasment to the UK conservatives. It is a situation of concern for the whole of the UK.

    One of the two largest political parties that represent UK interests in Europe, is now taken over by Polish nationalists.

    Who will see to British interests in Brussles?
    i'll decide what i find embarrassing thank you very much, and that was a notionally anti-federalist national party i supported sitting in a federalist european party.

    good, i'm a british (civic) nationalist, so i find that more than palatable.

    certainly not the EPP or the party labour sits within.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 07-17-2009 at 09:42.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #299
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    good article on the implications of the german constitutional ruling on lisbon, and how it may affect supra-national governance in future:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...636706,00.html
    OPINION
    The Future of European Democracy

    By Thomas Darnstädt

    Card-carrying Europeans reacted in dismay to a recent far-reaching ruling on the EU's Lisbon Treaty by Germany's Constitutional Court. But the judges have in fact done Europeans a huge service by tackling the issue of how democracy can work in the era of supranational institutions..................................
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  30. #300
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dawn of a new EU - European Conservatives and Reformists Group springs into life

    Well, it's only been running for over a decade and costing billions, but better late than never...

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