Europe

[Louis VI the Fat]

Barroso, the Commission President, came to ask for our support in his job reapplication, making a point of meeting the ECR before anyone else. British MEPs were able to cross-examine him at length and in detail, in a way we could never have done

It does not suffice to get all your EU information from a single activist.

It is not owing to the presence of a unification of the nationalists-populists-opportunists that the role of the European Parliament is enlarged. It is EU policy to have an increased role for the EP.

I thought you / Hannan / the nationalists were against more prerogatives for the EP? After all, this increased power to the EP is a precise goal of and reason for Lisbon.

[Tribesman]

It does not suffice to get all your EU information from a single activist.

I can't think why

I am increasingly confident that Britain will get its referendum. I’m not in a position to explain why at this stage, but our hand is stronger than is generally supposed.

So that would be a vote on a treaty that the country has already agreed to, passed through all its countries needed legislative processes and finally been given the Royal assent and deposited to the EU as a treaty ratified by Britain.
It must indeed be a very strange strong hand and it is not surprising that he is unable to explain

[Furunculus]

I can't think why


So that would be a vote on a treaty that the country has already agreed to, passed through all its countries needed legislative processes and finally been given the Royal assent and deposited to the EU as a treaty ratified by Britain.
It must indeed be a very strange strong hand and it is not surprising that he is unable to explain

to my (limited) knowledge, the treaty has to be ratified by all before it comes into force, and regardless, the joy of sovereign nation states is that they can do what they like, and no sitting government has the ability to bind future governments to its decisions.

[Tribesman]

to my (limited) knowledge, the treaty has to be ratified by all before it comes into force

What has that got to do with the price of cheese?

Hannan talks about a referendum to ratify the treaty by Britain , it is already ratified by Britain.

the joy of sovereign nation states is that they can do what they like, and no sitting government has the ability to bind future governments to its decisions.

Unless of course the treaties they have signed stipulate that the treaty is valid and has unlimited validity and will remain valid.
Since Hannan obviously can't be talking about a vote on Britains ratification of Lisbon as the ratification by Britain is complete(though maybe he is just really confused), then perhaps he is talking about a referendum on reversing the ascession treaty and Britain leaving the EU.
That should be fun as the ascession is by its own terms unlimited and for Britain to make a move to leave would require a completely new treaty which would have to be written and approved by all member states.....and they would also have to rewrite and re-approve all other ascession treaties and have all the governments approve....which would require a nice new EU constitution that all the countries would have to ratify.

So here comes the important question .
Is Hannan absolutely clueless or just incredibly stupid?
And what does the answer say about his supporters?

[Furunculus]

so you're telling me we're stuck in there forever, sounds a bit like an endless prison sentence, all the more reason to break out.

personally i think you're logic is faulty, and the solution does not need to be as dramatic as you think.

[Tribesman]

personally i think you're logic is faulty, and the solution does not need to be as dramatic as you think.

Think of it as a simple business contract, but a business contract that is sewn up very thoroughly.
It is very very hard to get out of a tight contract and you have to pay a hefty charge to all parties to attempt to invalidate it.
But there is an option, the only option really as there is no other method to invalidate the contract.
What you have to do is give all the constituant parts of the UK independence, then negotiate how each independent entity will remove itself from its obligations of inherited binding treaties.....but you will still need the agreement of all the EU countries.
That should be fun as the Welsh, six counties and Scots all benefit greatly from the EU and the cornish seperatists are really clamouring after EU money so you will have the little Englanders all by themselves trying to get a unanimous descision on something that most other groups don't want.

[Furunculus]

if the goal is worthwhile then it's worthwhile pursuing.

regardless of your conjecture on doomsday scenarios, i am still delighted to have the cons as part of a euro-bloc that subscribes to the following:

CONSCIOUS OF THE URGENT NEED TO REFORM THE EU ON THE BASIS OF EUROREALISM, OPENNESS, ACCOUNTABILITY AND DEMOCRACY, IN A WAY THAT RESPECTS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF OUR NATIONS AND CONCENTRATES ON ECONOMIC RECOVERY, GROWTH AND COMPETITIVENESS, THE EUROPEAN CONSERVATIVES AND REFORMISTS GROUP SHARES THE FOLLOWING PRINCIPLES:

1. Free enterprise, free and fair trade and competition, minimal regulation, lower taxation, and small government as the ultimate catalysts for individual freedom and personal and national prosperity.
2. Freedom of the individual, more personal responsibility and greater democratic accountability.
3. Sustainable, clean energy supply with an emphasis on energy security.
4. The importance of the family as the bedrock of society.
5. The sovereign integrity of the nation state, opposition to EU federalism and a renewed respect for true subsidiarity.
6. The overriding value of the transatlantic security relationship in a revitalised NATO, and support for young democracies across Europe.
7. Effectively controlled immigration and an end to abuse of asylum procedures.
8. Efficient and modern public services and sensitivity to the needs of both rural and urban communities.
9. An end to waste and excessive bureaucracy and a commitment to greater transparency and probity in the EU institutions and use of EU funds.
10. Respect and equitable treatment for all EU countries, new and old, large and small.

[Furunculus]

It does not suffice to get all your EU information from a single activist.

It is not owing to the presence of a unification of the nationalists-populists-opportunists that the role of the European Parliament is enlarged. It is EU policy to have an increased role for the EP.

I thought you / Hannan / the nationalists were against more prerogatives for the EP? After all, this increased power to the EP is a precise goal of and reason for Lisbon.

its just me that wants the EU crippled and stunted to nothing more than the commission, MEP's in the parliament may well take a different view, regardless of the EU they want.