AI quirks and low level generals

**gaijinalways** · 06-22-2009, 15:58

In my Polish campaign, I recently decided to attack the Italians, took Sardina (good for another place to pump out ships), and then declare a war on the Hungarians after the Pope warning (small enough to attack without realizing income freezes, and they hold Venice). I didn't realize, they were better teched up and better 'generaled up'

. So, I have feudal sergeants fighting chivlric sergeants, and they seem to be better armored up. Now I do have the buildings coming online to get chiv. sergeants (Flanders, Poland, and Sweden, with Sweden coming online within a year or two), but perhaps I should have waited?

Anyway, got 148K in the bank, and picked up some quick cash invading Prussia, and then Lithunania. Noticed though that Prussia was on the AI's mind for some reason. I then brought a larger number into Prussia with a smaller number into Lithunania. Battle in Lithunania about 500+ againist the same, but my generl was a -2 command! Luckily, was a close battle with my arbs and crossbows joining in the hand to hand at the end and I finally prevailed, but not without some tense moments.

The bigger defensive battle in Prussia was very tough, to say the least with some 3500 each. Took a far hillside with a 3 star general, was the best position I seemed to be able to camp on. Had a number of sergeants and arbs, with a few xbow cav. Enemy came and I picked some off on his approach, but soon was engaged. Fought for quite a while, and I was routed

.

I had reinforcements coming to a further away hillside. The Hungarians saw me poping in, he eventually attacked, another major skirmish, and eventually routed a second time

. The third time I brought in reinforcements on the original hill again, managed to hold and rout his men off with several in between skirmishes midfield.

My cav saved the day, with some units routed by arb fire attacked and fully routed before they could recover. My cav also kept harassing his arbs and xbows, sometimes getting whacked, but taking quite a few missile troops out. I was mostly down to FMA, spearmen, and a few arbs, and even archers. The cav units; RKs and xbow cavs really saved the day with chasing enemy HAs, harassing the enemy from behind, and nailing routers left and right. One surprise I had is when 20 something HA beat 40 xbow cav! Believe it or not this defensive battle saw me lose 1900 men to some 2300 for the enemy.

I keep hoping to get more mercs, as I could use them, but I am pumping out some more troops, but I don't want to trust the Alomonds too much

.

Just wondering though after the Lithunania battle, what is the lowest command general you have ever won a battle with?

**Knight of the Rose** · 06-23-2009, 09:09

I never think I've used a general with negative command, as you described. But in one Eggies campaign I had a really good general with 5 stars or some such. Suddently he started develop vices that influenced morale, and after a surprise attack I mistakenly thought I could repel he also gained "good runner". The two vices combined proved fatal in the next battle, where my troop routed much quicker than I was used to. Suddently he had become a "Questionable couraged inbread moonbeam dancing butcher", yet still 5 star general & "skilled attacker", and I was in serious doubts if I could ever use him again.
Looking back I should have, for the extra challange, but back then I just moved him to one of my remote and secure provinces for an early retirement.

/KotR

**gaijinalways** · 06-23-2009, 16:59

You could have had him partake in a long suicide march where perhaps he would gain his honor back. unfortunately, I don't have many starred generals, and general -2 is now a zero I hope (he just won another decisive battle). The Hungarians seem to be a lot weaker now as I took the wind out of their sails (figuratively and literally, I just sank their last ship

) , but we'll see how the other provinces go. I want possibly Greece and Venice and maybe a few connecting provinces to the rest of my empire.

The GH are actually a force to contend with as they have expanded to the edge of Lithunania and may take it since I vacated it. I plan to leave some Hungarians troops alive to help with them, I just hope to plunder and valor up some of my units who have gone soft since the HRE and the French left town (the HRE are still gone again, and the French are stirring up trouble in a few provinces in the Alomond empire), but not very near my shores. The Byz are allied with me now, but I don't know if that will make the pope happy or not. He doesn't really have any faithful catholic buddies anymore and the Alomonds are breathing down his neck, with th Byz not that far away. Even the Turkish are near as they hold Costaninople right now.

So I am hoping that some of my princes and other generals can get some experince, hmm, maybe it would be a good time to use Scotland as a training ground, yes?

I also wonder if you could use negative generals as a bait as maybe the AI will figure it can win a easy battle when your general runs off

. The retreating moves can be important, as I have had the AI run me out of position as you try to force it to battle. I tend to wait and see, and that doesn't always work. With clansmen, I can sometimes rush the AI, and these chappies are lightly armored, so they can take an arrow or two

.

These battles focused on where I decided to bring in reinforcements, as I did force the AI to move in each instance so that the AI troops were at least more likely to be more tired before engaging in battle. That seemed to make enough of a difference by battle's end as I was relieved as the AI units started running off the battlefield.

**Knight of the Rose** · 06-24-2009, 08:48

He he, you're quite a 'talker' Ganijin, you seem to have the same fever about the game as myself. When I've left M:TW on the shelf for a couple of months I start to get this urge...

As the general goes - he might have regained his honor, but then he would have become an honorable moonbeam dancer. Still bad for morale...

Clansmen are nice flankers, but IMHO nothing more. The skilled Inf and heavy cav of the horde will chop them up quite fast. Arbs and heavy spears seem to fare better, and with cav as flankers.

In your camp. I'd watch the Byzzies, as their provinces are nice, and their GA count (too) high. Leave the GH and pinch some Katanks.

/KotR

**Axalon** · 06-25-2009, 17:41

"...what is the lowest command general you have ever won a battle with?"

Well, for me it would be a 0 star general since I never had any commander with negative levels in MTW.
It all probably boils down to my rather Spartan approach to these things I guess - I kind of expect my
pixel-generals to be fit for command. If they are not, they don't command....

As simple as that really.

- Cheers

**gaijinalways** · 06-26-2009, 15:56

He he, you're quite a 'talker' Ganijin, you seem to have the same fever about the game as myself. When I've left M:TW on the shelf for a couple of months I start to get this urge...

Recently I'm pretty busy, but when I can afford the time, I need to vent some stress, and playing MTW helps greatly (better than going out and whacking real people, at least in my current situation anyway). Actually, it's been a while where I have played 2 back to back campaigns. I fear as we get closer to the moving date I will be busier filling boxes and have little time for such luxaries.

Clansmen are nice flankers, but IMHO nothing more. The skilled Inf and heavy cav of the horde will chop them up quite fast. Arbs and heavy spears seem to fare better, and with cav as flankers.

I find them interesting as they are fast enough to catch archers (sometimes even tired cav units

) and easily can catch arbs. I use them for that and one time even had them help take out artillary.

I am considering restarting my campaign from a few years back for a simple reason; I engaged the Hungarians and opened a small door to the Horde (though I am hoping that province will rebel as I planted quite a few of my spies there), but I realize they are enough of a pain that I might rather leave the Hungarians as a buffer to eastern Europe. But then again, it's fun whittling the horde down

, as long as their numerous cav units don't stampede you

!

In your camp. I'd watch the Byzzies, as their provinces are nice, and their GA count (too) high. Leave the GH and pinch some Katanks.

Actually, I am more worried about the Horde now as they are allied wwith the Hungarians (the horde actually stopped me from taking a Hungarian province when they invaded the turn before the castle was due to fall), as well as the Alomonds who are quite a bit ahead of me on GA points (the Byz only like 4, the Alomonds some 40 or more)

**gaijinalways** · 06-26-2009, 16:09

"...what is the lowest command general you have ever won a battle with?"

Well, for me it would be a 0 star general since I never had any commander with negative levels in MTW.
It all probably boils down to my rather Spartan approach to these things I guess - I kind of expect my
pixel-generals to be fit for command. If they are not, they don't command....

As simple as that really.

I like to give everyone a chance. Besides, I didn't realize this guy was a negative general until later (I know, I know

). But I was surprised as he still can win battles, just not as easily as your many starred hunks.

Now I had another interesting thing happen. The horde attacked Poland (remember that door I opened?), but with only archers and cav. I had a mixed group up on a decent sized hill. I had two xbow cav unit. I eventually rout the horde, with even their cav leaving (not routed). So I had earlier killed some artillery units as well as a few archer units. I saw the archer units going, some fleeing, some moving away. I attacked, and killed quite a few of them, but after one cav unit hit the 4th unit, already routed, it routed my cav unit! Hard to figure, a routing unit routing an enemy

!

**Brandy Blue** · 06-26-2009, 16:52

This is just a guess, but maybe your cavalry unit was not routed by the enemy but by its position on the field. Sometimes units get a morale bonus for being near the general. Also I think (I'm not sure) they get a bonus for local numerical superiority. If your cavalry had low morale and was almost ready to rout anyway, the loss of some such positional bonus might tip the balance.

**gaijinalways** · 06-27-2009, 13:11

That could be it. They also were still losing units (hard to figure when people are running away from your horse and you are cutting them down with your sword), perhaps they fell out of their saddles and were run over by their own mounts

?

The ones who survived still did a great job.

**gaijinalways** · 06-29-2009, 17:06

Update again

I have crashed further along. It has been an enjoyable ride. Had a horrifc battle the other night, lost a general but won the battle. The Hungarians seem to be getting desperate

. I have lost some troops

, but with still plenty of money

, I can fight a war of attrition longer than them

.

The loss of trade income with the horde has been minimal, but it still hurts. I really regret that I gave them a gap to hit at me at Poland, but since I may still be able to sue for peace at some point, I suppose I'll get over it. If the Horde didn't mostly hold good trading areas that were rebellious, I think I would be all over them already. But ince they have no fleets, I'm not too worried, and the Hungarians form a nice bottleneck on the eastern front.

I am slowly building my fleets up, and have quite a few better units arriving daily. As my less teched up older units sometimes fall by the wayside, it keeps the expenses down. I am still building plenty as well, otherwise I'm sure I would have even more money (150k plus).
Debating whether I should try to hold onto Greece, or give it up and slog along to Venice and another province that will connect Venice to my growing empire. I would like to keep both, but I am afraid I will get overstretched.

The Alomonds finally made a move into the Isle de France, one of two provinces I left vacant with spies adorning it (Franconia and Isle de France). I will have to watch them carefully, though they and the Hungarians are both having some rebellion problems in a few provinces. The Alomonds seem to have the stacks to put them down, they may simply be getting ready for an offensive

againist yours truly. If that is the case, I may need to put a pile of mercs on the payroll

and hope for a slugfest that will see the Alomonds losing a chunk of turf. The Hungarians I will soon sue for peace as well, as soon as I have taken a few choice provinces from them that I am more entitiled to

.

**oz_wwjd** · 07-04-2009, 15:01

I once won a battle with a -2 general. After a long series of battle against the egyptains,he got too cocky for his own good,and gavce chase to a group og Turcopoles,which proceeded to surround him from all sides and shoot him,which resulted in him routing off the battlefield,which gave him the "good Runner"series of vices. Anyways I left him there ,not expecting any trouble,and the very next year,the spanish invaded with 12,000 men which lead to this battle result.after a hard-fought victory.

http://s781.photobucket.com/albums/y...7af0c0e540.jpg

**Knight of the Rose** · 07-06-2009, 09:09

Sorry to break it to you, but that is actually a nine-star general, as OP asked us the lowest level of command, that doesn't really qualify

But a cool battle none the less. You must have stayed up all night to finish that one...

/KotR

**caravel** · 07-06-2009, 10:00

Yes a nine star Kataphraktoi general, probably with Royal blood? I think you may have confused valour with command? The general probably had -2 valour due to some particulary bad vices.