Twitter discussion

**Christianus** · 10-10-2009, 07:22

"Just so you know, the Romans are not alone in the West Mediterranean, work is progressing on rebuilding Carthage from the ground up. - Tanit"
And also not to forget the "Mamla'ha biMassylim" n north africa. Talking of multi cultural down there:)

**Phalanx300** · 10-10-2009, 11:10

Good news, just one thing on the new Hoplite animation, it looks good but seems unhistorical.

Its makes it impossible to keep formation, just look at these videos, in formation fighting it wasn't fancy it was formation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZt...layer_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2XL...eature=related

**antisocialmunky** · 10-10-2009, 15:14

Not all fighting was done in formation though... And I'd rather have variety over making everything look 100% accurate with the current engine.

**-Praetor-** · 10-10-2009, 15:43

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

seems unhistorical

#1 While there's a discussion going on about which form of hoplite fighting techniques were used, our mod decided to go for the overhand alternative because there's oodles more information and evidence in favour of this theory.
#2 Going for the overhand option doesn't mean that the hoplite wouldn't have used the spear underhand or utilized its buttspike. One of the reasons for adding that spike was to use it as alternative weapon when the point breaked during battle (which was not uncommon) or when the conditions of the battle dictated that it was advisable to use it in detriment of the point.
#3 Because of that, it is not a-historical to make the hoplite us its buttspike on exceptional events like the one posted. Rather, its the other way around.
#4 The clipping is avoided by the reasons explained on this post.
#5 While your argument regarding the close shield wall (synaspismos) has merit, for engine reasons, we cannot represent it in a way that is 100% faithful to the historical synaspismos during a charge, because the hoplites give too much space between them during the charge, and don't maintain their shield wall as they do when they are idle. We are trying to solve this.

The usage of this kind of exceptional movements (be underhand, be thrusting with the buttspike) is undisputed historically (it is like saying that a legionary never used a slashing stroke to the legs during battle. What if it was advisable for him to do so, even though his training dictated that he had to do only precise stabbing attacks to preserve stamina?).

Gameplay-wise, we are just trying to give you guys something cool to see like this animation, but if it doesn't work ingame, we will dump it. As simple as that.

Historical-wise: It isn't ahistorical. As simple as that.

PS: In the videos you posted, the shield wall they are representing is ahistorical. The shields should be placed like this. One in the back, and the next one in the front.

--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--

**Bucefalo** · 10-10-2009, 17:58

I wonder why people won´t trust the EB team to make the right decisions both concerning gameplay and historical accuracy.

Keep up the good work EB team, those hoplite animations are amazing indeed!

**-Praetor-** · 10-10-2009, 19:59

Just a note, critics are not an inherently bad thing. Its not like we like our work being questioned at every turn either, but constructive criticism (constructive criticism is, in my opinion, criticizing something while offering an alternative at the same time) like the one phalanx300 did are welcome, especially when they are made in an educated, respectful tone.

Critics like this however, are not.