Diplomacy is entirely broken

**Durallan** · 07-05-2009, 10:58

I dunno in my prussia game, Persia in the middle of the game almost looked to be like a mighty empire, stretching into india and out almost past constantinople (instanbul?) but later one they began to lose more and more provinces from the mughals ottomans and russians and now they only own Constantinople but they still won't make peace with me. Didn't take any of their regions either

**aimlesswanderer** · 07-06-2009, 07:38

I've played Sweden, Prussia, Poland and Austria, and each time have found myself in a war with the Russians just about to the bitter end. Even after losing all but the crappiest of their provinces they have a marked tendency to either not want peace at all, or declare war again after a few turns and get hammered, again. The only exception was when I got so annoyed I took all but 1 of their provinces and made them a protectorate. Having given away most of their land to my other protectorates or in exchanges for Caribbean islands, they continued to war on my protectorates, but after 10 years they hadn't declared war on me again, perhaps a record.

I wasn't interested in taking their land (except as Sweden I think, a victory condition), but found myself at war with them each time. And since I wasn't going to give them all my land, all my money and technology we just stayed at war.

I have also found that, for example, Denmark always likes DoWs against Hannover (inevitably my protectorate) after about 1730, when I am 20+ provinces. They don't last long, and only once have them moved troops into Hannover.

The ridiculous DoWs are not only a major annoyance, they markedly decrease the gaming experience. Why would a tiny 1 province nation decide to declare war on the largest most powerful country in the world which is right next door? And then decide to just sit around within its borders waiting for the stacks to arrive and obliterate it (sadly there is no massacre population option any more).

The number of times that has happened is countless.

Then there are the completely bizarre and seemingly random ones... like UP against my protectorate Courland (Courland didn't even have a port!).

And, as has been mentioned, if you get peace with a faction, all your allies and protectorates remain at war with it while you have moved on and are trading with them again. So they keep blockading your trade with them.

So much promised, which fell far short of what was delivered. It could have been so much better.

**Husar** · 07-06-2009, 09:30

Originally Posted by aimlesswanderer

And, as has been mentioned, if you get peace with a faction, all your allies and protectorates remain at war with it while you have moved on and are trading with them again. So they keep blockading your trade with them.

I never ask them for help in the war and just go to war myself, trying to avoid such problems and because I don't expect them to be of much help anyway, especially when they aren't even close to the enemy.

**aimlesswanderer** · 07-06-2009, 14:44

Originally Posted by Husar

I never ask them for help in the war and just go to war myself, trying to avoid such problems and because I don't expect them to be of much help anyway, especially when they aren't even close to the enemy.

Yeah, true, your allies' armies are practically stationary. But I usually have no navy, and they can usually harass the evil doers and keep my ports clearer.

**Sheogorath** · 07-06-2009, 19:00

Actually, I've found that the German States at least have VERY active armies.

In my UP campaign, Westphalia and Austria have been at war pretty much since the start of the game. Westphillia has annexed most of the other German states besides Hannover and Saxony, and I gave them France because Savoy (who I gave it to before, because nobody else wanted it or would pay me for it :\) back stabbed me.

Now The Westphalians are actually fighting a very active war with the Austrians. Provinces are changing hands with regularity and there's been several major battles. It's a stalemate, though, which would seem kind of odd, but for some reason the minor factions seem to have better strategic/tactical AI than the majors, even the landlocked ones like Austria and Prussia.

**Fisherking** · 07-06-2009, 19:05

Originally Posted by Sheogorath

Actually, I've found that the German States at least have VERY active armies.

In my UP campaign, Westphalia and Austria have been at war pretty much since the start of the game. Westphillia has annexed most of the other German states besides Hannover and Saxony, and I gave them France because Savoy (who I gave it to before, because nobody else wanted it or would pay me for it :\) back stabbed me.

Now The Westphalians are actually fighting a very active war with the Austrians. Provinces are changing hands with regularity and there's been several major battles. It's a stalemate, though, which would seem kind of odd, but for some reason the minor factions seem to have better strategic/tactical AI than the majors, even the landlocked ones like Austria and Prussia.

Austria’s units and order of battle are also crap. Most minor factions have better troops!

**aimlesswanderer** · 07-07-2009, 15:21

I have found the German city states to be extremely passive militarily. However, since I try and make them my protectorates early on that may nerf them somewhat. However, when I drag them into war with a neighbouring country (say Austria, Denmark, UP or France) they just sit around gazing at their navels, and even have half their army in a town on the opposite side of the province from where the enemy is.