The U.S. Health Care Debate

[Centurion1]

I am against this health care plan. I am not against reform however. I do not understand the excessive need of the democrats to force this bill through right now, any later and the world will end. It makes me suspect they are hiding things.

I think we should start with actually reforming things. My main problem with obamas plan is in addition to medicare and the like we have this new system. Medicare, Medicaid, Social security need to be drastically reformed or scrapped and completely remade. No single payer system (current) should have as high of a cost per year as we do.

[Ariovistus Maximus]

It makes me suspect they are hiding things.

Quite so. You know, I think some of this debate must be culture-clash.

Perhaps Europeans tend not to have a deep-seated distrust of government like we often do?

That would explain some of the disagreements here.

[Ironside]

Quite so. You know, I think some of this debate must be culture-clash.

Perhaps Europeans tend not to have a deep-seated distrust of government like we often do?

That would explain some of the disagreements here.

Depends a lot from witch region of Europe you talk about, but comparing with Sweden, I would say that we're more trusting of the goverment. But I sometimes get the feeling of how the existing distrust is shown differently.
In the US, when the flaws are shown, people are more accepting of it when it's their side doing it (the news shows for example) or are using it as proof that the state are always corrupt and tries (and usually fail) to reduce the state instead of try to fix it. Then again, you do have more grass root movements as well (not sure what that means on the whole though).

I do suspect that the US governing problems are linked to how the congress work. Personally, I say that the best reform you would ever get, would to put about a dozen very talented people in the field, unconnected (or low connected) to interest groups, to work out the ideas for a year or 2 and then slam the suggestions through congress before they knew what hit them.

I mean, the longer a proposal goes through congress it gets more and more perked, porked and watered down. Some review is good, but the congress is overdoing it.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Like most issues the main problem is that monied interests, coporate or organized labor, throw so much 'free speech' at politicians whose real main concern is getting re-elected. Term limits for all would go a long way in fixing this legalized bribery.

[Xiahou]

It makes me suspect they are hiding things.

Where would you get that idea?

One reason the public so distrusts the health care plan being considered by Congress is that so many troublesome details keep bubbling out of the massive legislation.

The latest example is the $10 billion taxpayers will be asked to shell out to prop up the United Auto Workers' retiree health insurance program.

That provision is tucked deep into the bill passed by the House.

In effect, it would ask every taxpayer, regardless of whether they'll have health insurance coverage themselves after they retire -- and most won't -- to chip in to maintain the UAW's coverage, which even after the union's givebacks is still better than what the average American worker receives.

A $10bn payout to unions? Gee, I wonder why they're in favor of the bill?

Howard Dean recently stated that tort reform isn't in the bill because Democrats were afraid of making enemies of the trial lawyers. I guess a hefty payoff was what it took to get the unions on board. Bear in mind that people are still finding things like this in the bill almost daily. If Obama had gotten his way this bill would have been signed into law already. So yeah, I could see how you might think they're trying to rush it through before we see what's really in it.

[Tribesman]

The latest example is the $10 billion taxpayers will be asked to shell out to prop up the United Auto Workers' retiree health insurance program.

The government sholdn't put tax payers money into this insurance , they should let the ex workers use tax payer funded programs for people without insurance instead