"Splintered Cells" mini-mafia [Concluded]

**TheFlax** · 07-06-2009, 17:44

Yeah, I utterly failed in this game.

With no Beefy around to sustain me, I went to an all-time low.

**Beskar** · 07-06-2009, 17:49

Were there any pro-town roles in this game? Other than your screw-up, it was otherwise pretty unchallenged.

I think next time you try this format, day 1 is 1 infection versus town, then the game would balance out far more.

**TheFlax** · 07-06-2009, 18:08

Oh and congrats to ATPG for pointing the fingers at the right people, even if that proved fruitless.

**Iskander 3.1** · 07-07-2009, 01:07

Achooo!!!!
Iskander sneezed so hard his nose fell off

(Bet you thought I was going to have a pic of Michael Jackson, didn't you!)

The virii lept forth from the infected cells, looking for new hosts to infect.

Game over. Mafia victory

Infected
4

Healthy
None

Dead and gone
Atheotes
Taka
CDF

Musings and Ponderings to follow.

**Beskar** · 07-07-2009, 01:15

Was there any Pro-town roles?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 07-07-2009, 01:31

Interesting game, for sure! I would definitely tweak it to give the town more of a chance... first day should have one infected cell, not 2.

**Iskander 3.1** · 07-07-2009, 01:34

Well, another mafia victory, although the majority of you got to share in it. When I came up with the idea for this I ran several tests on paper with various roles and I decided that the handicap I placed upon the mafia (that the infectee doesn't know the infector) already made the town powerful enough, and a pro-town role would just be too easy.
The idea was for infected cells to try to drop hints for other infected cells, without actually revealing who they were. I knew that eventually the infected would out-number the healthy, and if I told them who their teammates were it would lead a very quick easy victory, but if I left them in the dark then it could lead to infected voting for other infected, just like townies voting for other townies in a "normal" mafia game.

The other dilemma in this game was what to do if an infected tried to infect another infected (did I say that correctly?). This happened during night 2, when TheFlax turned around and tried to infect Beskar. It was a tossup between having him wait another night, having him infect someone else right away that night, or letting Beskar infect again the next night. I chose the last option, which slowed down the mafia but also let TheFlax know who was on his team. I didn't think this would be a problem because I really thought either Beskar or Flax was going to be lynched the next day, but when Taka got voted instead, I realized that the mafia were on their way to victory.

Beskar was the original infected cell, and I gave him 2 special abilities (which he never used):
1. Once per game, he could inspect one other player.
2. Once per game, he could ask me to randomly reveal another player.

I really don't think this game was unfairly balanced, you just all voted for the wrong people!

**Iskander 3.1** · 07-07-2009, 01:38

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Interesting game, for sure! I would definitely tweak it to give the town more of a chance... first day should have one infected cell, not 2.

The problem with that is that if Beskar was lynched day one, the game would be over before it even started.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 07-07-2009, 01:46

Originally Posted by Iskander 3.1

The problem with that is that if Beskar was lynched day one, the game would be over before it even started.

This is true, but such is the case in mini-mafia games. That is why when I host mini mafia games, if there are 2 mafia they don't know each other. It's already a huge advantage to be basically a third of the population, when in typical mafia games the mafia are a fifth (or less) of the population. After the first (wrong) lynch, in this game they could be half of the population. At that point, all the infected people could have just gone "AHEM cough cough" and forced a draw on the votes, and infected another person that night.

From where I sit, the town had exactly one chance to stop them, and that was on the first day. Now, given Flax's error, we had two chances, but still... not enough for a sporting chance when half of the mafia does know each other due to infecting one another.

Also, you have to figure because cults can spread, they are exponentially superior to standard mafia. It may have worked out on paper a few times, but people are intelligent, and those in the know will dominate those not in the know.

I'd be willing to wager that this setup would end in a mafia victory 3 out of 4 times or better.

**Iskander 3.1** · 07-07-2009, 01:59

All good points Pizza, thanks for the input. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to play this, as these games are helping me tweak "Rainy Day Mafia" (which is what I'm calling my upcoming small game).

As of this time, I no longer will be able to participate in mafia games as a player. With job changes and a baby due in under a month, my internet time is roughly once a day (instead of 9 hours straight, as it used to be).

I will, however, continue to host. And Pizza, you brought up a very good point about being willing to risk having a game end in round 1. It would be pretty selfish of me to give the mafia an advantage just so I could enjoy hosting the game longer.

My next mafia will be based on Star Trek VI. I'm putting more work into that than I did in the past two, but the set-up will be more traditional and if it does end early, I can always re-start it with different players (growing up, I liked that movie so much that I would often watch it twice in a row!).

**Askthepizzaguy** · 07-07-2009, 04:47

Additional thoughts, if they are helpful:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Balancing games is an interesting challenge. Best case scenario, town can annihilate the mafia, if they get really lucky, due to greatly outnumbering them. However, town is rarely that lucky.

When I rate the difficulty of a game I'm designing, I check to see how many mistakes the town can make before they automatically lose.

In a game like.... Godfather III, there were 3 mafioso. But there were also a lot of townies. You could make 5 or 6 mistakes and not have it really affect the game. And, one lucky shot could reduce the ability of the mafia to kill more than once a night, giving the town additional chances. A game like that is difficult for the mafia to win.

In a standard mini game (6 town, 1 mafia, night kill) that means 1 mistake, 2 townies dead. (nightkill). That reduces the game to 4 townies, 1 mafia. 2 mistakes mean another townie dead day phase, another dead night phase. That brings it down to 2 townies, 1 mafia. 3 mistakes mean the town loses. Of course, that means the mafia has to play a perfect game to win, that's difficult.

In a more difficult mini game (5 town, 2 mafia, no night kill) That means 1 mistake, 1 townie dead... 4 town, 2 mafia. Another mistake, and another townie dead.... 3 town, 2 mafia. At this point the mafia nearly takes up half the town, and all 3 townies must choose correctly, and no divisions among their ranks... the final round is very hard. So it's easier for the mafia to win.

A very difficult mini game (5 town, 2 mafia, 1 night kill) means 1 mistake, 2 townies dead... 3 town, 2 mafia. This means unless town gets it totally right and all townies unite against the mafia on the second round, the mafia wins. It's very difficult for the town to win, because even if they get it right one round, it is not over, and the mafia still can murder. It basically works out to allowing one serious mistake by the town, on round one no less.

Now, take away the ability of the mafia to kill, but give them a conversion and make them a cult, and it works out to 2 mafia, 5 town. One mistake, and it is 3 mafia, 3 town. That's game over, assuming the cult converts properly and votes intelligently.

---

After that, you look at best case scenarios. In the best of the best cases, the town kills a mafia every day phase. Usually it shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 correct guesses for the town to triumph. It is the fact that they are divided and suspicious of one another that makes it difficult for them to guess correctly.

What makes the game difficulty difficult to predict is the existence of protown roles like a detective who may be useful, or may never find the mafia, and die early. Or, two or more anti-town groups in competition with one another. So long as 3 or more groups exist, it is possible for the town to triumph in almost any situation... even if they are greatly outnumbered. See Treehouse of Horror for the town getting crushed by mafia, until the mafia obliterated one another, leaving the fate of the game in the hands of one townie.

Things such as total or partial invulnerability greatly affect the balance of power. For example, in the Council of Villains game, not only did the Bowser character have total invulnerability (itself an insane trump card), but there ended up being at least two protector roles. The protector roles could, in theory, defend one another. And that's exactly what happened. Eventually there were at least 3 totally indestructible people in any given night phase. There was an amazing amount of mafia or anti-town in that game but... the town was given considerable advantages.

In my opinion, the most powerful townie is the defender/immune/invulnerable role, and the most powerful mafia is the cultist. Any of these things upset the balance of power in a huge way. The investigator is also a powerful role, but more difficult to predict in terms of usefulness.