Occultus and the hidden Factions (Discussion)

[Andronikos]

The culture wouldn't be problem, they would be Eastern Greek with few unique buildings at the beginning to represent Indian features, later (after Helenisation) they will use normal Eastern Greek buildings.
And there are many Indo-Greek units already ingame: I. light spermen, longbowmen, guild wariors, IH peltast, light hoplite, helenic hoplite (Saka reform), elite hoplite, Taxilans, Kambojas, IH cav. (Saka reform), Indo-Saka catas, 2 elephants
There are regular factions which have less units that would be considered their unique.

And the interests in India could be solved by some events, expenditure for out-of-map wars, few rebel stacks spawned randomly or something similar.

According to Wikipedia, Helenic rule in that region started around 200 BC and that would be that reform or dynasty change.

[bobbin]

And there are many Indo-Greek units already ingame: I. light spermen, longbowmen, guild wariors, IH peltast, light hoplite, helenic hoplite (Saka reform), elite hoplite, Taxilans, Kambojas, IH cav. (Saka reform), Indo-Saka catas, 2 elephants

There are only really three indo-greek units in the game, the indohellenic peltasts, indohellennic infantry and indohellenic noble infantry all the rest are either indian or hellenic Saka units.

Some would have been used in indo greek armies (light spearmen, longbowmen, guild wariors Taxilian cav, Kamboja's and elephants) but others are products of Greek/Saka interactions and wouldn't be seen in Indo-Hellenic armies (the hellenic hoplite and maybe the greek cavalry) as for the Indo-Saka Cataphracts the clue is in the name, they certainly would be in a IH army.

But in the end the Indo-Hellenic Kingdom is highly unlikely to be in EBII due to the fact it didn't exist in 272bc.

[moonburn]

and still nobady remember whats probably the most obvious faction of all

the schytians of mikra schytia, altough they where being pushed aside by the sauromatae they where far from dead since they only got conquered by 110 bc. (by a pontiac king) a mixed schytian hellenic faction that could work like the saka on the west with a mix of hoplites and horse archers and with the amazing crimean heavy archer to defend it´s walls from the getic the sauromatae and the persian sucessors (hay or pontos)

they would be a buffer beteween the getai and the sauromatae and there´s 4 possible city´s for them (2 in crimea) olbia (capital? altough it wasn´t conquered by 272bc and was a greek city i believe) and that one that normally gets stormed by the sauromatae in the sea of azov

for victory conditions they could possibly have to emulate their massive invasions of the 7th century bc (?) wich enabled the persians to press the advantage and overthrow the medians and the assirians (?)

there´s some evidence that in the sea of azov there was a schytian city that had the hability to house over 1m people (and i know it´s from wikipedia so not so reliable but if it could impress the greek authors maybe it´s worth a chance at fighting back the sauromatae and give the getae a run for their money at the start)

seems the most obvious of all (after the boii and the belgae)

anyway just my 2cents for a dream come true of a steppe faction with a greek economic development an schytian-hellenic faction

[A Very Super Market]

The Bosphoran kingdom has been suggested many, many times. Not really fitting the team's statement, although I doubt it anyways.

[moonburn]

what i understand as the bosphoran kingdom would be nikkaia and bizantium making a kingdom and not a schytian/hellenic faction (since the bosphorus is a strait that links the egean and the black sea) if not then my bad

[A Very Super Market]

Ack, I'm not thinking clearly.

A Crimean faction was suggested several times, and there are a few unique units based around there anyways. But I'm not sure if they were expansionist enough to warrant a faction.

[moonburn]

the schythians of mikra schytia where expansionists

i mean bronze arrow heads in the levant of schytian origin shows they where expansionists the problem is picking a region for them since they are "everywhere" from the black sea to the hyrkinian mare (colchis as them that setlement above the caucasos has them and so on)

the reason for olbia region is it´s name (mikra schytia) but to make it balanced or at least economically viable they would either have to have a 2nd region in crimea or go straight to kallatis (?)

maybe make them allies of the greeks at the start granting them trading rights with 2 ports could sufice to sustain their economical problem and they could forge a northern euxinos empire that would help them regain the steps

thing is getai and sauromatae have no direct enemies to contend with at the start giving them a small advantage of chosing their fighting grounds while historically getai thracians (altough most believe they where one and the same) hellenes schytians and plus basternae/germans(?) and even celts where all living in those regions and fending for their right to be a separate people while trying/waiting for the sauromatae onslaught as more and more schytians went to their setled cousins running away from the sauros

i believe they and the boii for their prior history influence and overall mark in the world up to 272bc have the right to be a faction with a chance to be great again far more then pergamon imho that just gave it´s lands to the romans without a fight and betrayed the rest of hellas by showing the weakness of the greeks and inviting romans into the aegean affairs wich ended with the roman conquest of hellas proper

even in eb there´s information of a schytian king taking olbia by force and making it a new "setled" home for his people up until 110bc where the king of pontus defeated them

if there´s 10 slots there are many factions deserving for many reasons their prior history and influence in the world up to the start of the eb timeframe is imho a very important reason wich include the boii (the sack of delphi the creation of galatia where all their doing) and the schytians (schytians where known for 500 years prior to eb stardate destroyed empires forged alliances fought in many wars either as allies or mercenary´s) and even tough the sauromatae where now the dominant group in the sttepes the schytians where not dead and where still the essencial horse archer known to all the hellenistic kingdoms (except perhaps for the parni/dahe bordering baktria and as)

as for them being expansionists they took greek cities they fought wars against the pontus, i aknowledge there isn´t much information about them after 272 but if eb is the write a new story of the, what if, then what if the schytians had regained the sttepes with their new knowledge of greek ecomical development (markets harbors roads) plus some good old mix of hoplitai and horse archers army

from wiki (i know i´ve been reading these forums for a year now and i know wiki is not well regarded but still easyest source to use): Second Scythian Kingdom

Scythia's social development at the end of the fifth and in the fourth century BC involved its privileged stratum in trade with Greeks, efforts to control this trade, and consequences partly stemming from these two: aggressive external policy, intensified exploitation of dependent population, progressing stratification among the nomadic rulers. Trading with Greeks also stimulated sedenterization processes. The proximity of the Greek city-states on the Black Sea coast (Pontic Olbia, Cimmerian Bosporus, Chersonesos, Sindica, Tanais) was a powerful incentive for slavery in the Scythian society, but only in one direction: the sale of slaves to Greeks, instead of use in their economy. Accordingly, the trade become a stimulus for capture of slaves as war spoils in numerous wars.

by the start of the eb time frame there´s whats called the 3rd scythian kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia

not much info but from the info prior to the 3rd century and using the units already available in the game (maybe complement it with some type of levy spearman or just using the pontic spearman) there´s enough units to form a decent army of the steppes and a levy infantry army

with the ports on the black sea and some greek markets (perhaps even granting them the hability for stone walls in their sedentary regions) they have the gold the tactics and the manpower to be great again, they just need the leadership and a plan wich is ofc what the human player is for

schytian units:
horse archer
steppe rider
foot archer
axeman
nobles (?)

then there´s the:
heavy archer
greek hoplai
pontic spearman

plus close to the basternae (cool native troops) and to the sauromatae (their spearman could make cannon fodder or garrison units)

P.S: i´m not making a case for a new faction i´m just stating that the schytians are probably one of the 10 factions that will appear and surelly one that deserves to be included

[Subotan]

Ack, I'm not thinking clearly.

A Crimean faction was suggested several times, and there are a few unique units based around there anyways. But I'm not sure if they were expansionist enough to warrant a faction.

I think they're certainly viable for a faction though. Give the Sarmatins something to do, and if naval invasions are sorted out, the Bosporan Kingdom could be quite powerful.

Also, the idea of Mikra Skythia never occurred to me. Possible, but I think the Bosporans are more likely.