EB Online Tournement Battle Report Thread

[antisocialmunky]

Welcome to the Europa Barbarorum Online Tournement Battle Report Thread. Please keep this to only the posting and discussion of replays and tallying of results. Discussion about rules and other stuff should be carried out in here.

To look at the rules or sign up please go here as well.

The rooms are:
EBOT_0
EBOT_1
EBOT_2
EBOT_3
EBOT_4

Passwords are all EB.

PLEASE JUST SELECT 3 ROOM RANDOMLY TO JOIN. MATHMEMATICALLY THIS WILL RESULT IN EVERYONE BEING ABLE TO PLAY EACH OTHER

Romani: 23/27
Agrippa 6-7 = -1
ACS 10-6 = 4
Mithick666 2-2 = 0
spiritusdilutus 5-11 = -6
Lestat 0-1 = -1

Aedui: 6/1
NeoSpartan 6-1 = 5

Saka: 7/4
Antisocialmunky 7-4 = 3

Carthage: 7/12
darius_d 2-5 = -3
Jebivjetar 2-1 = 1
m0r1d1n 3-6 = -3

Arche Seleukia: 22/10
French-Legionaire 1-3 = -2
Fluvius Camillus 6-0 = 6
Flavius_Belisarius 2-3 = -1
JinandJuice 13-4 = 9

Pontos: 13/5
tsidneku 13-5 = 8
Apázlinemjó 0/0

Makedonia: 2/1
Maion 0/0
Alexander 0/0
Antigonos 1/0
Sir Karati 1/1

Getai: 0/1
Maris: 0-1 = -1
mountaingoat 0/0

KH: 2/20
Alsatia 0-13 = -13
"Hiero" 2-7= -5

Sweboz: 0/0
Phalanx300 0/0

Hayasdan: 3/3
Vartan 3-3 = 0

Saba 4/6
Parallel_Pain 4-6 = -2

Casse 11/10
Gabeed 11-10 = 1

Averni 0/0
The Celtric Viking 0/0

Good luck and have fun. This runs to August 1st :)

EDIT: I will eventually compile all the replays up here like: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ght=tournement <- If anyone wants to see some epic games(and a 40K Macedon of DEATH) go here.

[tsidneku]

I bring you two matches today! Links to the replays are in the titles, in case people don't notice.

Game #1: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This was a pretty epic battle. Despite our starting points, we arranged it so that we could meet at the top of the hill for a relatively level ground battle. Flavius' archers/slingers tore through half of one of my heavy cavalry before I realized it before the engagement. Pontos won the battle after its horse archers slung around the rear to bring down the Makedonian aux troops and cavalry.

Game #2: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

We chose Grass Flatlands this time so it would be completely level. Neither of us minded that there was no flora, we were both Hellenic based factions so surprise didn't matter as much. I busted out the Galatikoi Tindanotai this round. I was surprised to find that Flavius only fielded 6 phalangite units, it was backed with 4 slinger units to try to counter my cavalry. A double-sided flank turned into a heated battle on all three fronts. Eventually, Pontos broke through the flanks and routed a good number of his troops. However, he seemed to have clobbered my phalangite line. I have no clue how that happened -- any commentary/explanation is greatly appreciated. I was worried that I had blundered and lost this one when I realized my phalanx line was dead, but I managed to pull a victory out of the bag.

[Maion Maroneios]

This is the first battle I fought with the new rules and, as I expected, my army was mauled very, very badly. I lost more than double the men I was able to kill. With the fewer men, my cavalry actually lost the fight on my left and the superiority of numbers on the side of my enemy made sure I was promptly surrounded. Also, the bad quality of my phalanxes made sure they routed quickly upon being surrounded. Not to mention the riddiculous +1 chevron that my enemy (ACS) used that gave them *even* more morale and attack. As if the very high morale of the Romans isn't enough to begin with. And the irony was ACS told me it was a "nice" and "good" game. Yeah right.

As such, I ask you to consider raising the cap to 40,000 again and abolishing the +1 chevron rule. I am ready to present you with even more evidence for these rules being riddiculous enough for us Hellen-players.
http://www.filefront.com/13949992/undefined

There's actually another matter. I, due to these restrictions, was unable to field good enough infantry to match my enemy instead having to field skirmishers. My Kretikoi and Akontistai were no match for any of ACS's infantry. There should be restrictions in the ammased infantry, forcing players to actually field some skirmishers instead of purely infantry and - this goes for the Romans - those riddiculous numbers of Extraordinarii that ate my cavalry.

[_Agrippa_]

flavius he must have the tests to accuse a user to have used the upgrade on weapon and armor

[Maion Maroneios]

flavius she must have the tests to accuse a user to have used the upgrade on weapon and armor

There is no "she" in this Tournament, I can assure you of that.

Maion

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

This is the first battle I fought with the new rules and, as I expected, my army was mauled very, very badly. I lost more than double the men I was able to kill. With the fewer men, my cavalry actually lost the fight on my left and the superiority of numbers on the side of my enemy made sure I was promptly surrounded. Also, the bad quality of my phalanxes made sure they routed quickly upon being surrounded. Not to mention the riddiculous +1 chevron that my enemy (ACS) used that gave them *even* more morale and attack. As if the very high morale of the Romans isn't enough to begin with. And the irony was ACS told me it was a "nice" and "good" game. Yeah right.

As such, I ask you to consider raising the cap to 40,000 again and abolishing the +1 chevron rule. I am ready to present you with even more evidence for these rules being riddiculous enough for us Hellen-players.
http://www.filefront.com/13949992/undefined

There's actually another matter. I, due to these restrictions, was unable to field good enough infantry to match my enemy instead having to field skirmishers. My Kretikoi and Akontistai were no match for any of ACS's infantry. There should be restrictions in the ammased infantry, forcing players to actually field some skirmishers instead of purely infantry and - this goes for the Romans - those riddiculous numbers of Extraordinarii that ate my cavalry.

I have played following the rules and you question me in this way.
I am very disapponted of your response.
I won because I played better than you.
Yes I use 3 units of extraordinarii, but did you think you are historically right by using 4 or 5 units of cavalry in makedonians army(like you do often).
So if I can t use my melee infantry, what can i use?
I haven t phalanx, many good heavy cavalry, i haven t horse archers, i haven t many spearmen.
So what can I do in your mind?
Nothing, I must leave you win...
Be right with me, romans have only melee infantry, without this I can t playing against any hellenic factions.
We must respect each other, I have never attacked you in this way.

This is the battle: http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198511046/vsmaion.rpy

[Maion Maroneios]

I have played following the rules and you question me in this way.
I am very disapponted of your response.
I won because I played better than you.
Yes I use 3 units of extraordinarii, but did you think you are historically right by using 4 or 5 units of cavalry in makedonians army(like you do often).
So if I can t use my melee infantry, what can i use?
I haven t phalanx, many good heavy cavalry, i haven t horse archers, i haven t many spearmen.
So what can I do in your mind?
Nothing, I must leave you win...
Be right with me, romans have only melee infantry, without this I can t playing against any hellenic factions.
We must respect each other, I have never attacked you in this way.

First of all, I never attacked you. Even a rookie would win this battle against me. This is intened to proove ASM that the rules need to be re-checked. You're a good fellow, I've told you that before. Nothing against you.

I've never used 5 units of cavalry. I always use 4 units of them, since they are the only thing that can give me a victory over armies like the one you fielded.

Also, I never said you shouldn't field only Extraordinarii. I said I couldn't counter them because I didn't have the additional Hetairoi unit that gave me the opportunity of winning cavalry battles. I was doomed to fail in this one, especially since you had so much more infantry to protect your cavalry with.

The Romans didn't only use infantry. They had many Socii in their armies IIRC, and this doesn't only count the Extraordinarii. You used absolutely no skirmishers, which gave me a clear disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that you seem to neglect, mainly the +1 chevron that gave your units iron discipline (if the Romans don't have enough of it to begin with) and other bonuses as well. I was in a clear disadvantage and I knew it all along, I just wanted to proove ASM the rules have to be re-checked.

ASM, give me back my mnai!

Maion

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

I tell you this battle didn t count for tournament, it was only friendly match.
But you give me this response?
Take a look of those you write... isn t it really an attak?

I m sorry to talking like now, i want play many battle against very good opponent like you...

I respect you and other.
But you can t talking in this way.

[Maion Maroneios]

I know it was a friendly match, I don't take any battles (wether Tournament ones or not) too seriously. Also, sorry if it sounded offensively, because honestly it wasn't intended to be so. I just want to show ASM what I had ranted about in several posts and he simly dismissed everything.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I want to play more battles against you to have some concrete cases that support my claims

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

Placemarker post. - Win/Losses updated

@Maion - Yeah you were pretty doomed with that army - you didn't have a dominant cavalry arm against Rome or atleast you didn't use it. You're right about that. You also had the misfortune to fight ACS who is fairly good with infantry. Plus he picked the no-missile rome army up from me so you can thank me for that, buddy. I think its a little too early to tell. I'm going to wait for a a few more Hellenic replays before I open this issue up again. But the thing is that its hard to nerf Rome with money on both sides. If you don't give Rome chevrons, then it will always pick elephants... :-\

Also I disagree with the assertion that the Greeks can't field equally large infnatry armies. Maks are a little disadvantaged since they don't have the hordes of Asia with them or the hordes of Illyrians that their neighbor has though. Its something to consider since Maks are very middle-high range faction.

[mountaingoat]

Good luck and have fun. This runs to July 1st :)

i thought it started on 1st?

[vartan]

i thought it started on 1st?

Runs all through the month of July 2009.

[Maion Maroneios]

Placemarker post. - Win/Losses updated

@Maion - Yeah you were pretty doomed with that army - you didn't have a dominant cavalry arm against Rome or atleast you didn't use it. You're right about that. You also had the misfortune to fight ACS who is fairly good with infantry. Plus he picked the no-missile rome army up from me so you can thank me for that, buddy. I think its a little too early to tell. I'm going to wait for a a few more Hellenic replays before I open this issue up again. But the thing is that its hard to nerf Rome with money on both sides. If you don't give Rome chevrons, then it will always pick elephants... :-\

Also I disagree with the assertion that the Greeks can't field equally large infnatry armies. Maks are a little disadvantaged since they don't have the hordes of Asia with them or the hordes of Illyrians that their neighbor has though. Its something to consider since Maks are very middle-high range faction.

I believe you also failed to read this was a friendly match? You seem have counted this outrageous victory as valid for the Tournament. Do you want more proof that the Romans will be able to beat me over and over again with those rules? Fine. But if you don't listen and bring the cap back as well as abolish the +1 chevron rule of at least the Romans, I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Tournament because it takes all the fun away.

Take a look at the battle I fought with ACS, the last one. I won onoly because he didn't use his massive remaining troops (in comparison to my tiny remaining infantry force) to counter my exhausted cavalry. If he did, he would have won. And guess what? No damn chevrons. If he had them, I'd have gotten mauled 100%.

Also, why in the name of God do the Romans have to spend every single penny they got left?

Maion

[Jebivjetar]

Yeah, i*ve been watching this battle between Maion and ACS for about 5 minutes and than i quit because it was clear from the start what will happen there. I totally agree with Maion: some rules must be changed: with these rules now you have weak and crippled Makedonia and, yes, this kind of battles are not a) fun b) challenging (because Romans by default have answer for any Makedonian action).

And, ACS, just to avoid any misunderstanding: im blaming the rules and just the rules.

[Flavius_Belisarius]

After the two great battles i had with tsidenku we played two more. One of that i lost again, but i dont have the replay. Pls post it tsidenku :)
But i have the replay of the last one, which was my first i won

http://www.speedyshare.com/906761542.html

I was Macedonia like always and he pontus. This time i decided to put my general in a reformate Pezhetairoi because in my opinion the macedon heavy cavalry isnt their price worth, maybe im just too noobish, but im quite sure that the hetairoi and the Hippeis Thessalonkia are way to expensvive. With the phalanx advantage i won the phalanx fight very fast, and instead of using expensive cavalry i spent money on hoplitais to defend the back of my phalanx. He permantly shot with his cretan archers in the back of my phalanx and my hoplits which was very leathly. Great game again! Im very glad that i won at least one time. :)

Edit.: Im quite new here but could it be that the roman infantery is way to cheap? Even the levied units of macedonia are more expensive than principes which are quite strong. And the extraordinarii cavalry seems to be equal strong as the macedonian hetairoi altough the hehtairoi are much more expensive.

[antisocialmunky]

I believe you also failed to read this was a friendly match? You seem have counted this outrageous victory as valid for the Tournament. Do you want more proof that the Romans will be able to beat me over and over again with those rules? Fine. But if you don't listen and bring the cap back as well as abolish the +1 chevron rule of at least the Romans, I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Tournament because it takes all the fun away.

Take a look at the battle I fought with ACS, the last one. I won onoly because he didn't use his massive remaining troops (in comparison to my tiny remaining infantry force) to counter my exhausted cavalry. If he did, he would have won. And guess what? No damn chevrons. If he had them, I'd have gotten mauled 100%.

Also, why in the name of God do the Romans have to spend every single penny they got left?

Maion

<annoyed>Well since NEITHER OF YOU made it obvious that it was a friendly match until 2 posts below the replay I initially added the game. But then I just forgot to take away the win while getting rid of the loss so there. MAKE IT OBVIOUS ON THE FUTURE PEOPLE like putting 'test match' as a title or something...</annoyed>

Everyone else gets to spend all their money so why are the Romans not allowed to? Bescause of their discounts? If you remove the ability to chevron that's not going to fix the problem. What you're going to see are weird Roman armies fileld with pedites, extraordinarri/campanians, and elephants, 5 phalanx, etc. The Romans will spend their money on other crap if they can't spend it on slightly pimped out legionaires for around 250+mnai each. If you didn't notice, you did alot of damage to them on your right flank in game #1 for practically the same price as those legionaires with Celtohellenic hoplites and Thracian skirmishers.

I'll do some tests with the Maks closer to the weekend. I might move the money back to 40K.

I do admit that I did underestimate the Maks being as ridiculously high end as they are. NONE of the other hellenistic factions are like that. They all have a cheap levy option. It doesn't help that they have a levy phalanx 150 mnai more than most of other.

<annoyed>It would have helped more if instead of just point out and complaining about the problem, you played a game like this before the tournement started like you said you would and like I told you that you should to prove your point. You didn't have to wait until I actually started so I had to change the rules after its started. I can't do all the testing for this tounement! AND SOME HELP ANYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE BEEN APPRECIATED. I'VE HAD TO DO ALL THE TESTING AND SERIOUSLY I CANNOT. I CANNOT. I CANNOT.</annoyed>

I'm tired of changing this stuff. I'm not going to get rid of the 1 chevron - that is not the problem, more than likely, it'll be a 12 limit of heavy infantry for ALL factions and a limit of 8 limit on HI for steppe army compositions. If anyone wants to test this against the Romans, PLEASE DO SO SINCE I WON'T UNTIL THE WEEKEND!!!! There are 5 Romans in the tounement and 7 hellenics in the tounement. If only 2 or three of you played 1 or 2 battles, it would be enough. DO IT.

If you can't beat a heavy infantry limitted Roman chevrons or not with a full 5 cavalry, 6 phalanx, 6 infantry, 3 missile army...

[Flavius_Belisarius]

Why dont we make the heavy infantery of rome a bit more expensive for online playing. Its not hard to change some values in the export descr unit file.

[Maion Maroneios]

OK, since I see no motivation and willingness of changing the rules (nor any reasonable asnwer as to why the Romans have to spend all their money per se), I'm afraid I will have to quit the Tournament. I truly believed it would be a fun experience, my bad it seems I was wrong. Good luck to the rest of the players.

Oh, and this decision is neither irrational nor hasty. I have pondered with the idea of quiting for quite some time now. I reached the conclusion that I would either continue blaming you (ASM) for things you aren't responsible for and press you to change rules you're not even going to abolish and keep getting my arse kicked (thus wasting my time fighting battles you're not going to check anyway), or just leave the Tournament and have a clear head and stop bothering with trying to prove something that some people (not specifically you, ASM) are too stubborn to take in mind.

Maion

[mountaingoat]

well i just had 3 battles with kniva , though he was not playing as AS in any of the 3 battles .. still gg , first time i have had to slay the might beasts online

[antisocialmunky]

Well, good riddence. You have shown no willingness to help ot accept anything other than what you think is right. All you've done is complained. When I asked you to help, I get nothing. A magical silence that's followed up with more complaining later on. I have tried to be accomodating to everyone and willing to change the rules. What do you think these tournements just happen? That rules can be easy to come up with and balance is something that magically happens? I've put in alot of work to try and find a good balance and I WISH that someone else would have the initiative to find problems and show them. But they still have shown willingness to help - you have done nothing but complained validly perhaps but with no proof or willingness to show me.

IF SOMEONE, ANYONE posted a replay of Macedonia getting so disadvantaged AS that, I would have been more inclined to listen to you, you know? And I am. I'm going to go ahead with the Heavy Infantry limitations later this week. If anyone cares to post the replays of battles using a 12 Heavy Infantry(infantry with out fast moving) please do so.

However, I can't really say I'm happy that you're leaving. It would have been nice to have a good Mak player around.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, goto hell Maion. You have shown no willingness to help ot accept anything other than what you think is right. All you've done is complained. When I asked you to help, I get nothing. A magical silence that's followed up with more complaining later on. I have tried to be accomodating to everyone and willing to change the rules. What do you think these tournements just happen? That rules can be easy to come up with and balance is something that magically happens? IF SOMEONE, ANYONE posted a replay of Macedonia getting so disadvantaged AS that, I would have been more incliend to listen to you, you know?

No one cares that you're leaving so don't make a big deal about it.

Thanks for that first thing you said, ASM. That adds up nicely of what idea I have of you in my book. And I didn't want to make a big deal of it, sorry if it sounded as such. I never personally meant anything against you, so again sorry if this sounded as such. As for others posting replays of Makedonia, let's just say that nobody seems to have had any real problems so far or was too bored or unwilling to point out the weaknesses that are created by these rules.

To be honest, I believe you're doing a good job ASM. As good as you can, but for some reason you seem to have something against me and don't listen to me when I point out weaknesses in your rules. I've given you many alternatives and shared my ideas with you, but you were always too "smart" by pointing out I was either wrong or that your rules would work out so well.

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

Well, I asked for tests. No one gave me anything. I was just frustrated because you have no idea how much work I've put in when I said that. The reason why it seems I've had something against you is that you never gave me any proof. I tested my ideas, they seemed to work well. You said you would test and didn't show me anything. I'm jsut pissed off I overlooked something this big. I thought Maks performed better than this at this test point. I'll admit when I'm wrong but I'm not going to do so without proof. If you have a complaint. Make it valid by proving your point rather than just pointing it out ad nauseum - it makes it sound like you're just complaining and no one likes that one person that keeps pointing something out and then acts smug when the plan goes to hell. If you're really commited to improving something, then you would put forht more effort to demonstrate your idea. Prove it, that's all I've asked for.

Well let this parting be amicable. Thanks and good luck.

[mountaingoat]

[antisocialmunky]

A wonderful start huh?

[Flavius_Belisarius]

Well, I asked for tests. No one gave me anything. I was just frustrated because you have no idea how much work I've put in when I said that. The reason why it seems I've had something against you is that you never gave me any proof. I tested my ideas, they seemed to work well. You said you would test and didn't show me anything. I'm jsut pissed off I overlooked something this big. I thought Maks performed better than this at this test point. I'll admit when I'm wrong but I'm not going to do so without proof. If you have a complaint. Make it valid by proving your point rather than just pointing it out ad nauseum - it makes it sound like you're just complaining and no one likes that one person that keeps pointing something out and then acts smug when the plan goes to hell. If you're really commited to improving something, then you would put forht more effort to demonstrate your idea. Prove it, that's all I've asked for.

Well let this parting be amicable. Thanks and good luck.

I personally really understand you. Moreover its kind a impossible to make a 100 % fair balance, and even if one or two factions are stronger it shouldnt matter is, because its just a game...

But pls Antisocialmunky, dont ignore me the whol time xD Pls update the battle i posted ^^ And is my idea really so bad to make the roman infantery a bit more expensive ? Simply want answers if its crap i wanna know it !

[tsidneku]

I played two more matches with Flavius_Belisarius last night.
He has posted the last match already, a couple posts above. He was victorious in that one. ASM, please update the scores accordingly when you have a chance. It ought to be 3-1 for me, and 1-3 for Flavius. Thanks.

Game #3: Flavius_Belisarius vs tsidneku

This one was extraordinarily close. I snuck by with a victory with some effective cavalry charges to route his remaining forces. I think the victory was decided when his general fled from the battlefield.

[antisocialmunky]

Oh, that must have slipped in as I was posting the checkpoint. My bad. It is credited but tsidneku will have to post his win.(Edit, good - I'll update later today when I post the scoring checkpoint.

And yeah their heavy infantry is ridiculously cheap but time and time again, I have seen the Maks take 1 experience Roman armies from the last tournement at 40K just because 3 Companions and 2 Friends have a bad tendency of killing all the Roman Cav they can field and just having a field day with what's left of the infantry. It was quite even as the final tally showed(Maks won 1 more than the Romans :-p and I only beat Irish because of that ridiculous cav battle in the woods + phalanx exploit and I beat Gabheed because I managed to kill his general out of pure luck). I didn't realize that Maks had such a big problem fielding decent armies. I did some army composition testing last night after ACS posted that replay and yeah its a little tighter than for the other factions to say the least.

I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea putting the money back at 40K for good. Everytime anyone's touched it, its turned out weird. I guess its best for the overall balance but not that great for the barb vs unbarb match up... except now they can do 2 vs 1 team games and such. Sigh oh well. I'll pop in for a few games tonight to see how the Romans can be limitted other than imposing Maion's artificial mnai limit that they can't use or something. Honestly I'm not sure. I'm not convinced that the massive ACS experienced infantry army is a Mak beating force at 40K though. Heck, I played an epic game against Maion using the the experienced legion and only won because a horde of Samnites trapped the cavalry in a corner. The Maks are quite powerful if they can get their horses.

@editted edu. - This would be ideal especially since the KH are mising 2 units but it would be quite messy telling people how to do the replacement with all the complaining etc...

[vartan]

So Jack why don't you go ahead and change back to 40k, remove the chevron, and limit heavy inf to 12 and 8 respectively?

[Maion Maroneios]

Heck, I played an epic game against Maion using the the experienced legion and only won because a horde of Samnites trapped the cavalry in a corner.

Remind me when that happened exactly?

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

I could have sworn it was you. Maybe it was someone else? I remember it was against on of the better Mak players that wasn't IrishHitman. But yeah, I formed a triangle with my legionaires that was surrounded by phalanxes on one side. I threw my Pedites into your Thracian Skirms and Hoplites. You then tried to out flank me. I let you and draw your cavalry behind my triangle. I then lobbed all my spearmen at you cavalry and we had a running cav battle into the corner. I then ran my cavalry the hell away behind your phalanx and started charging it.

Then your cav came back and we had a final cav fight. Your general routed and my men finally surrounded your forces for the win. It was very close and its fights like that why I think that a chevroned up Rome is balanced vs Macedon @ 40K. If the Companions had managed to get around my Samnites in force, it would have been game.

I'll change mnai back to 40K tonight :-\ I rather get a game as Maks in before I do at 40K against ACS(preferably) or someone else. They are pretty much invincible if they preserve their cavalry arm.

I'll post the replay tonight. I could have sworn it was you. I think we fought another time and you were complainng about Burebista always hiding his archers in the woods. That was like his one and only trick. :-p