KOTF OOC Thread

[AussieGiant]

You need to keep in mind that, even with this info, spears do far better against a charge than other infantry. I had two companies of mounted sergeants charge some DFKs at Marseille. They lost 3men and left only 6 of the DFKs behind because the DFKs had effectively no defense. If I had pulled the charge trick off correctly I wouldn't have needed to lose any men, or perhaps just one as they withdrew, but I was watching another part of the battle.

Well that's pretty depressing.

[Cecil XIX]

Well that's pretty depressing.

Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

[AussieGiant]

Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

Is there a realism mod?

[econ21]

Well that's pretty depressing.

Swords were always weak vs cavalry, but with the mod DFK stats have been nerfed quite a bit. I'm not a great fan of the change as it seems to be for "balance" rather than realism. But it's not that bad for gameplay. DFKs used to be pretty uber. Now they are just offensive infantry roughly equal to armoured spears, who are defensive/anti-cavalry infantry. They will have their role e.g. in sieges, I am sure; just not in receiving a cavalry charge.

Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

I don't think it's a matter of the AI so much. From Shogun onwards, a good player has always been able to get a lot done with their bodyguard(s) against the AI. (Their bodyguards as part of their army - this solo bodyguard army concept is new to me). It's just we have very good players and the early AI has not built up so much, so the advantage is more noticeable: the AI is not fielding full stacks and their troops are largely lowest tier. I remember in KotR towards the end, the Egyptians started fielding large elite armies that made me blanche (Mameluke horse archers plus those scarey axe wielding dudes).

Given what I have learnt about LotR and from this game, if we were starting again, I would have suggested nerfing bodyguards a little. What the realism mods for RTW gravitated towards, IIRC, is give them one hit point not two and make them smaller, say halve them. That would cut their power statistically to 25% of what it is now.

Raising the base morale of units might also help as I suspect part of what is going on is players engineering a AI morale collapse. There are probably large morale penalties from having cavalry charging your rear, seeing friends rout etc. The RTW realism mods generally give harder battles because the AI clings on, rather than routing early.

I am not sure if we want to make such changes now that the game has started, but it probably would not be hard - just a matter of editing one txt file. Maybe we could consider it as a rules change at the next Conseil?

(a) Reduce bodyguard units to one hitpoint.
(b) Half the unit size of bodyguards.
(c) Add 10 to each unit's morale.

But who knows, maybe attitudes will change when we start seeing player generals die (as they did quite often in KotR and LotR).

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That hitpoint thing is a bit over rated.
Those default 2 hit points are not that important actually. Generals do die quite often as we saw in LotR. I myself lost an avatar when I tried to pull off Methodios
More important are those traits and ancillaries that give extra hitpoints.

[Vladimir]

I believe that the stats for RBG units are good but not great. What truly sets them apart are the hitpoints and ability to regenerate. Consider that if you half the hitpoints you diminish their strength by more than half.

Reducing hitpoints and unit size may be too much.

[woad&fangs]

I'd support halfing the unit size, but I think reducing the hitpoints is a bit much.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I don't have much to add..... I am fine with whatever happens. I was kind of amazed at some of the things people have been pulling off. I have always been far to timid when it came to bodyguards I guess.....

[Ituralde]

I withhold my judgement until I've fought a battle myself. I'm always afraid of loosing my general. While most of us are very capable of handling even weakened bodyguards we don't want it to turn into frustration for those of us who aren't as uber.

[econ21]

This was the screenshot that got me thinking about nerfing bodyguards:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Even though Tristan was outnumbered nearly 10:1, the computer thought the battle was even (1:1) because bodyguards are just so formiddable.

That hitpoint thing is a bit over rated.
Those default 2 hit points are not that important actually. Generals do die quite often as we saw in LotR. I myself lost an avatar when I tried to pull off Methodios
More important are those traits and ancillaries that give extra hitpoints.

I don't think the general's hitpoints have a big impact on their unit's combat effectiveness (unless things have gone really bad ) or their BGs hitpoints have a big impact on their general's survivability. But I am sure the BGs hitpoints have a big impact on their unit's combat effectiveness. I suspect it is why you can charge into spears frontally and walk away almost unscathed - you probably are taking some hits in return, but they are just reducing the 2 HPs to 1 HP.

I can only speak from personal experience, but in most solo campaigns, I have become very cautious in my use of regular (1 HP) heavy cavalry. Yes, it can deal damage. But they also take damage that I find rather painful - I hate to see my elite horsies die. With 2 HP regenerating BGs, you can be more robust. But occasionally, it does bite you in the rear and you lose the main man.

I just talking here - I am ambivalent about changing the stats partway into the game. And nerfing BGs would do nothing to stop the mounted sergeants walking over DFKs that AG and Cecil found depressing. Let's play on and see how it goes when the circle of players fighting battles widens.

[Ramses II CP]

I have a fair bit of writing to catch up on. I'm hoping to get the Marseille battle up today, and at least make a start on the Gaetan explanation. The Council session will hopefully give me some time to get it all in place and making sense.

There *is* an explanation for Gaetan popping up at Marseille and it'll all come together soon. I hope.