KOTF OOC Thread

[econ21]

(OOC: A couple of things to consider/discuss in the OOC thread perhaps:

1. What happens if the Seneschal is killed during the emergency session?

2. What happens if a civil war begins during the emergency session, in particular with respect to the disbandment edict?

3. Can the King declare himself Seneschal during an emergency session?)

My 2 cents (based on past conventions in these kind of games):

1. Time freezes during Conseil sessions (no one should touch the save), so I don't see how the Seneschal can be killed during one.

2. If a civil war is declared during an emergency session, then I would imagine edicts imposed by a Seneschal on a hostile player are largely irrevelant when the session ends. I can't see any troops in your stack being disbanded due to an edict if you were at war with the Seneschal.

3. No, Seneschal's are chosen at regular sessions unless there is a vacancy (death, impeachment). The King exercising his perogative is an alternative to an election, so happens when the election would have happened.

[Ramses II CP]

Killed in a duel, not killed in a civil war battle. I'm assuming duels are like untimed downs in football; i.e. they happen in the same kind of quasi-real time that the discussions in the Council happen.

I tend to agree with you on point #3, but it isn't spelled out in the rules that an emergency session is necessarily different from a regular council session so I figured I should ask.

We live in interesting times, that's for sure. I hope the guys who let their characters lapse realize what they're missing. We might well end up in two (or more) wars, during a crusade, all happening around a civil war!

I'm going to give OK a chance to respond before Louis considers the compromise proposed in the Council. It hardly seems fair to challenge him and then back off and be reasonable before he has some OOC time to get a word in edgewise.

[econ21]

Killed in a duel, not killed in a civil war battle.

Ah, alright, I see. Yes, well in that case there would be a vacancy so we would have a new election unless King exercised his perogative. I think the new Seneschal should have a full 10 turns (it's a little unfair to make someone do all the work of Seneschal without getting a decent run at it), but that may be Zim's call.

BTW: re-reading the rules, an emergency session should last for 3 days. So if we say the session started from when you seconded the call, we have around 24 hours until it ends.

[OverKnight]

Hugues dieing would be sweet release from a thoroughly frustrating term.

Someone else can be water boy for a blitz campaign.

[Ramses II CP]

Hugues dieing would be sweet release from a thoroughly frustrating term.

Someone else can be water boy for a blitz campaign.

I totally get where you're coming from OK, but I think there has to come a point at which the logic of in character actions outweighs what we, as players, want the AI to be capable of doing. There's always that line between shaping a story and playing the game, and the story might be better if we wait, but I don't see any way to play Louis that way. If that's personally frustrating to you, rather than just to your character, I apologize.

We gave England every imaginable chance and the AI blew it. Louis has to be Louis at some point. I've come up with every IC justification for him avoiding an attack on England I could imagine (I seriously did propose the edict about disbanding armies that violate the truce (Sorry AG)), but with the excommunication it just doesn't make sense anymore.

[Vladimir]

If the concern is fairness to the AI then perhaps GM intervention could counter sloppy IC actions. Try not to get frustrated over IC actions. I just got back from two weeks of people talking each other. There are witty and funny ways to counter that kind of pressure. Bend, don't break.

[OverKnight]

It's not this latest dust up, it's the summation of the entire term so far.

[ULC]

I am tempted to run for Seneschal this coming term - sounds like fun

[GeneralHankerchief]

OK does have a point. We're taking provinces at an alarming rate. Unfortunately for everybody, none of our characters want this rate to go down anytime soon.

[ULC]

I'd be rather content with just beating the crap out of the AI - I want to fight battles, not wander around aimlessly trying to avoid negative traits.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

same here, Don't really care about taking any more territory, but being able to fight some battles would be nice. Plus the way I figure it, after we have France reconquered the rate of expansion should go down.

[OverKnight]

Ah, alright, I see. Yes, well in that case there would be a vacancy so we would have a new election unless King exercised his perogative. I think the new Seneschal should have a full 10 turns (it's a little unfair to make someone do all the work of Seneschal without getting a decent run at it), but that may be Zim's call.

The rules don't spell out what should happen if a Seneschal dies in office. The closest framework is for impeachment. I'd suggest following that (election for a new Seneschal to serve the remainder of the term) rather than making up something on the fly and throwing off the terms. Remember the term of the three Chancellors in KotR, Igno, Warluster and flyd? Neither of the latter got a "reset", they were merely entitled to the years remaining in Ignoramus's originial term.

[KnightnDay]

I liked the idea of kicking off a war against England because it seemed like every noble looking for a fight was descending on Frankfurt. It would be nice if Thomas could fight at least one battle in his own province and not have to serve under another avatar. Not expecting to get to be an 8 or 10 star general like Ramses and Tristan, but I'd like to get a chance to report on fighting at least one battle in the near future.

[Ituralde]

I am against expansion In Character and probably also OOC. But OOC it really is not a big issue for me. The AI will never be a challenge for us in these games. Never! So I prefer to see good storytelling and interesting conflicts between our characters. So far I had a blast with this Emergency Session.

It's hard to judge from a forum post how a person really feels, but I hope it's not become seriously unfun for you to be the Seneshal Overknight. I don't know where we passed from the Seneshal being something you wanted to do to becoming a chore. I hope you hang in there and don't let yourself pulled down. You are the almighty Seneshal after all!

[Braden]

OOC I’d also rather we didn’t expand but I also have the feeling that if we do sit back and continue to consolidate we’ll just stagnate story wise AND get the high-end units too fast and just steamroller the AI anyway. There isn’t any perfect way to do this so I’m hoping to go with an “expand in bursts” policy. We take the English holdings in France now…uniting France and making those of Royal blood much happier In Character…then consolidate and look ultimately to the Holy Land after that (assuming the Ai doesn’t start any silly wars with us again).

IC Henri wants to see France re-united…its his country by blood, unfortunately I can’t see this any other way at the moment so I’ve pretty much stayed out of this Emergency Session on purpose:

1 – Henri doesn’t own land so can’t vote officially anyway

2 – Henri can influence via the Order of the Fleur-de-lys in the backrooms.

[ULC]

I'm fairly sure Henri can vote, just as any consiel member can - owning land is not a qualifier for voting, so much as eligibility for being elected Seneschal.

[Braden]

Ahhh..that’s me getting confused but I’ll try to keep low still as I don’t think we need many more voices FOR war do we.

[OverKnight]

Feel free to advocate for war, there's a variety of different flavors: There's Crusade, reclaiming continental possessions war, total war, immediate war, slightly delayed war, let's focus on the Germans war and cherry.

Almost everyone wants war, they're just fighting over the particulars.

Edit: Henri can vote, he has the minimum 1 influence.

[econ21]

The rules don't spell out what should happen if a Seneschal dies in office. The closest framework is for impeachment. I'd suggest following that (election for a new Seneschal to serve the remainder of the term) rather than making up something on the fly and throwing off the terms.

Ah, alright - I did not realise we had already pretty much covered that contingency. The rules are surprisingly comprehensive. I should read them more often.

Almost everyone wants war, they're just fighting over the particulars.

Hermant's stance is determined by the King; it would be hard for a military order dedicated to serving the King to oppose a war that the King is legally entitled to declare regardless of what anyone else wants. Next game, I'm forming a pacificist order dedicated to gardening and quiet contemplation.

I don't know what the solution to the IC lust for war vs the OOC desire for a challenge is. Right now we are like a bunch of cats trapped in a sack. We have an aggressive monarch and Prince, plus a lot of army-less, province-less warriors looking for something to do or perhaps someone to do in. Historically, I think the solution to the under-employed warriors was lots of tournaments and crusades. Maybe we should try that. In game terms, if Zim wants, I volunteer to buff up the English and Germans so that taking on England and holding the east will be as hard as it should be. Just give me the word.

[AussieGiant]

Hermant's stance is determined by the King; it would be hard for a military order dedicated to serving the King decided to oppose a war that the King is legally entitled to declare regardless of what anyone else wants.

Oh dear, Fraudian slip there Econ? I'll try not to use that suspicion IC.

As for the rest, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

This is like a sack of cats looking for release.

The best way to douse some of the fervour...put a bit of fear into some of the players. Buffing seems like a good move at this time.

-EDIT-

And when I say buffing, I mean Tristan, Ramses, buffing tactics. :-) (Sorry boys, for better or worse we have an IC situation backed by two players with a skill set that means the game could be over in weeks.)

I'd actually tee up two stacks just for the two of them. Nothing like looking at a stack and actually wondering if you can survive.

[Braden]

Tournaments!?! I joined after the true starting Toruni so I don’t know if there was anything like this but…

…how about an IC Tournament again BUT contests can be completed by formalised multi-player battles?

“Formalised” means to a set number and type of support units and upgrades plus General units must match as closely as possible the Avatars own upgrades.

Example:

The Foot competition would have 1 x dismounted knights + 3 units of choice but to a maximum upgraded level (i.e. you can have any three foot units…NO archers or crossbows…but only to a max of 2 bronze chevrons and silver armour and no weapon upgrades).

The Joust could be similar but only mounted units…again no archers or crossbows.

Think you can see how this is going. Just an idea, not ideal but might keep players doing something other than bouncing the Ai.

Another added option might be that Avatars “active” in the Tournament may NOT lead an army in the field. The Avatars must move to Paris or wherever the contest is to be held and remain there for the duration.

Again, this can be used to give other players a chance to lead armies as control is moved to them.

[econ21]

Braden, the option to do duels as multiplayer battles has been discussed before; I don't see a problem with organising a tournament along those lines (although I'd probably not participate).

On the timing of the Emergency session - we've had the Prince and the Duc of Bretagne request a motion to extend the duration. By the rules, granting this request is Zim's decision:

Each Normal and Emergency Session consists of 3 real time days of debate, followed by 2 real time days of voting. Zim or anyone delegated by him can change the length of individual sessions at will.

It would be good to hear a bit more from the King in the session, but I'd suggest no more than a 24 hour extension (ie to tomorrow night). The last Conseil session and vote counting seemed to drag on more than necessary and this is supposed to be an emergency.

[Braden]

Braden, the option to do duels as multiplayer battles has been discussed before; I don't see a problem with organising a tournament along those lines (although I'd probably not participate).

that's ok then, at least its there as an option for duels already. I was envisaging an actual tournement along the same lines. I might have time to organise it if there is a need.

[econ21]

I might have time to organise it if there is a need.

With these kind of things, finding someone with the time to organise them is key. TheFlax found running the pen and paper style opening tournament time consuming, but with multiplayer battles, you don't really need an umpire to do much, just organise a schedule of battles and confirm outcomes.

Things seem lively enough right now, but it's an interesting idea if the game quietens down. I have no idea how many players would be interested in fighting multiplayer battles in a tournament, but if you found around 8, that would be enough IMO [four heats, two semis, then a final]. If you liase with Zim to organise some trait/retinue prizes, I would imagine that number of participants should be attainable. When the time comes, you could start a thread to identify participants and hammer out rules etc.

[Rowan]

Next game, I'm forming a pacificist order dedicated to gardening and quiet contemplation.

Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it


On a sadder note, I'm officially quitting KotF due to lack of time, not that anyone would notice. I might be back in 8 months when I should have my Master's Thesis done and some more free time due to paternal leave ;)

[Braden]

With these kind of things, finding someone with the time to organise them is key. TheFlax found running the pen and paper style opening tournament time consuming, but with multiplayer battles, you don't really need an umpire to do much, just organise a schedule of battles and confirm outcomes.

Things seem lively enough right now, but it's an interesting idea if the game quietens down. I have no idea how many players would be interested in fighting multiplayer battles in a tournament, but if you found around 8, that would be enough IMO [four heats, two semis, then a final]. If you liase with Zim to organise some trait/retinue prizes, I would imagine that number of participants should be attainable. When the time comes, you could start a thread to identify participants and hammer out rules etc.

Besides, I remember very clearly our two Civil war battles from WotS and what a nasty thing they were for you...returning the favour a bit here.

The option is there ok now. At least M2 is easier to deal with in these respects so I'll contact Zim shortly to see what we can present.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it


On a sadder note, I'm officially quitting KotF due to lack of time, not that anyone would notice. I might be back in 8 months when I should have my Master's Thesis done and some more free time due to paternal leave ;)

Best of luck Rowan! We'll be here when you get back.

[Ramses II CP]

Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it


On a sadder note, I'm officially quitting KotF due to lack of time, not that anyone would notice. I might be back in 8 months when I should have my Master's Thesis done and some more free time due to paternal leave ;)

Sorry Rowan, I really was going to get in touch about joining House Aquitaine, but things in RL and in the game went a little crazy.

[Braden]

Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it


On a sadder note, I'm officially quitting KotF due to lack of time, not that anyone would notice. I might be back in 8 months when I should have my Master's Thesis done and some more free time due to paternal leave ;)

Paternal leave mate, good on you...parenthood is awesome! Good luck and hope to see you soon (keep us posted huh?)

[_Tristan_]

Sorry about the King being more quiet than his usual in such an unusual situation but things have gotten nasty in RL... I'm currently negotiating the buying of my new house and selling the old one... So that takes up a lot of my time... and mostly on week-ends...

I'll try to get a grip on things before tonight and should post accordingly...

The King is not dead, yet... (though if we follow AG's suggestions, it might sooner rather than later...)