KOTF OOC Thread

[Braden]

Still here and still willing to keep going, does seem we've lost 98% of the players though!

[econ21]

I think I am going to have to drop out of this one - my computer no longer recognises I have a DVD drive and so I can't play M2TW (or 90% of my games). It may be best to call this PBM a day.

[Ituralde]

I realize that the last thing this PBM needs is another player dropping out, but while I've been checking here regularly I'm quite busy at the moment. Too busy in fact to put the effort into this game that would be needed to kickstart it back into life again.

Seems like we have enough food not to starve but too little too live, as the saying goes.

[Braden]

oh dear...I'll just go off and cry in a corner now.

[Zim]

Crap. I'm afraid the course of this pbm has basically been a result of my failures as gm. First my absence from computer problems, and then I should have acted much faster on the issue of how to continue when we lost our Seneschal.

Let's keep the thread going a few more days to see who is interested in continuing. In the meantime, anyone interested in a discussion on a new game, starting with an (initially) smaller group and maybe further out from Europe, pm me.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Well I'm still up for something what you got in mind?

[Braden]

Well, I'm happy to continue this one but also happy to start a new one.

Not sure if Empire is suitable yet so we could stick with Medieval or roll back a bit to Rome or similar. After all, to me its the Role Play aspect that appeals more than anything.

[Ferret]

nooooooooo, not another one biting the dust

[Zim]

I was thinking a BC game would be fun, although what I'd really like is to continue this one...

[Braden]

well, as said before I'm still here and willing/able to continue (though to a slightly less extent seeing as the forum is blocked again at work). Perhaps a Roll-Call is in order for active players Zim?

[deguerra]

I am here (ish. about to leave for a few days), but somewhat against continuing this. Don't think there will be the numbers anyway. I think what we need to do is really look at what we can do to improve the longevity of these games. I think Cecil said a page or so back that nothing has recaptured the fun of the Cataclysm in KotR and that is certainly a feeling I share. Personally, I also think we need to move away from vanilla, though I realise this will cost us those players who cannot or do not want to mod. But playing Gondor in TATW is going to be more of a long term challenge than any faction vanilla can throw at us.

[Braden]

playing Gondor in TATW is going to be more of a long term challenge than any faction vanilla can throw at us.

Say what!? Where is this Mod, point me to a LOTR's mod!

[Zim]

Third Age: Total War. It's a great mod.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=654

If we are thinking of starting a new game (and staying wtih some mod of MTW2) we should discuss what the last game was missing (including, very obviously, me for a couple months...).

One idea I played around with is that since there's a hotseat workaround that allows defensive battles in hotseats (utilyzed in KOTF in case we wanted an AI faction played for any length of time), it would be fairly easy to have players play more than one faction. With something like the HRE mod that might make things more interesting. Or something like TATW with one group as a faction on either side.

Of course, with longevity a problem with these games splitting players might just make things harder... or would it create more copetition and make things more interesting?

[Braden]

Thanks for the link, I've started downloading...hey, only erm...a few days to go on that.

This game, it certainly seemed to start dying when key players dropped out...through no fault of their own certainly...but when core players, players who have the save or were in commanding positions have to drop out the vacuum caused is like an air bubble in a vein. Shortly after this there were some long pauses in play. Firstly, that was partly my fault as I contested the Kings choice for IC reasons and the politics (which some people just don't enjoy) went back and forth for about a week. This wouldn't have caused the death of the patient but immediately after that was resolved we had:: Death of the King, a Looonnng pause for the Holidays and then another unforeseen pause when the save holder was detained.

I can't see how these things could be avoided unless you have a big core of players and a mechanism in place to swiftly move a new save into play with the minimum of fuss.

Another key point was the Holiday break..perhaps starting a game nearer the start of the year so that it doesn't clash with either Spring / Summer break or Christmas holidays would be a good idea.

[deguerra]

Zim. Been thinking about the multi faction thing as well, and also think it might be a good idea. If we go with the TATW hypothetical, something like Rohan and Gondor might work well, seeing as we don't really want to be fighting each other much. I agree that a dedicated core is needed. I am fairly certain a fairly dedicated administrator is needed, something like what we had in the Cataclysm. This being a large and onerous role, it might be an idea to switch this OOC role as much as we switch the IC chancellor role. But most of all, I think we need a way of roleplaying more. The "personalized decision" system we had in the Cataclysm is what I think provided the great fun that people had. It's obvious flaw is that it needs an administrator with a lot of time. I also think it might be an idea to move away from a throng of recruitable bodyguard characters, and I think mutliple played factions might be an idea in this regard. It would give each character more things to actually do.

Braden: try out TATW. Very well done mod. Recommend the Real Combat/Real Recruitment submod if you're willing to brave another large download. Otherwise, vanilla is pretty sweet as well.

[Braden]

Braden: try out TATW. Very well done mod. Recommend the Real Combat/Real Recruitment submod if you're willing to brave another large download. Otherwise, vanilla is pretty sweet as well.

Going to try as soon as I can, had some problems getting the downloads to work but someone was kind enough to add a torrent downloaded version for me to try...hopefully, when that's downloaded I'll get to try TA. Also, being a dedicated Mod means I can keep the mods for THIS game intact.

Also, as a side note, if a new game started with TA:TW then I'd be onboard (assuming I get it to run ok). I've done online LOTR RP before, even free-form type.

[Ferret]

It is indeed a good mod, can't believe I'd never heard of it before. I'd be up for a multifaction game on TA:TW. Though the fact that it's such a long download may make it difficult to get a lot of players.

[Braden]

TA:TW downloaded via torrent link and working fine.

Initial impressions are good but I'm not sure about its suitability for this type of game as the timeline and allocation/status of characters is a bit screwy and that might annoy some purists. Still, I had a silly smile on my face when i found out I could recruit HOBBITS!!! lol

[deguerra]

actually, and im a little embarassed to admit this, I liked the mod enough to do a bit of modding myself. Nothing fancy, but I changed the timeline to more moveish times, added Boromir, Faramir, Eomer, Theodred and some others like Eomers father and the Princes of Dol Amroth. Certainly happy to update that to the latest version if this ever does happen.

[TinCow]

While I am sad to see this game dying, I am not surprised. I think a major problem with the current rule system is that it requires a lot of players to work well. Unfortunately, a lot of us (myself included) have drifted away from the TW games over the years and that's had a huge impact on our desire to play more of these things. I think it would be wise to come up with new systems of running games like these that concentrated on fewer, more dedicated players to make them work. I would suggest perhaps disposing of most of the rank system and instead making players more equal to one another in powers and abilities, and requiring competition by horizontal alliances between equals rather than vertical power bases.

[Zim]

I have to admit, I wouldn't play the game at all without thesePBM games and the current hotseats. I don't play ETW at all. I've been trying to get into a single player MTW2 game, trying different mods without much luck (Rusichi TW is quite impressive, although Im not sure I can take the frequent kingdom destroying rebellions). As far as SP games, I'm just waiting for a new copy of EU3 to arrive now.

I'd be up for helping start a more scaled down game if people were interested. We'd have to make some decisions on how to keep the game going, though.

[TinCow]

Another option is to simply use another game. While in-game avatars wouldn't be possible, there's a lot of room for using a game like EU3 as a platform for a RP-power struggle for a nation game. If we can manage these kinds of games in the TW engines, we could certainly do it in a Paradox engine as well. We could even create our own worlds and use other games as 'battle' platforms to resolve wars. There's no reason we couldn't have a 'world' map that exists only on the forums with any random multiplayer game (Mount and Blade: Warband?) filling in for battle resolution.

[Marcus Agrippa]

What about the empire campaign?
We can recruit generals from the start and some can be admirals.

[Zim]

ETW? I've been wondering about that. Would the fact that different people might have bought different DLCs (or none) cause any problems in passing the save around? What about the automatic updates through steam, are they generally save game compatible?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm not sure but what I've read is that those updates are not save game compatible.
Though, I could be wrong here since I don't have ETW myself
Anyway, I like that EU3 game idea that TC proposed.
Might even buy the game then.

[Ferret]

I'd rather steer clear of ETW, it's just not as good as M2 or EU3...

[Cecil XIX]

It seems like we've all agreed to begin discussion on the what to do with the next game. If everyone agrees, I believe a new thread should be created where we can all do some soul-searching on the future of these things.

I'm not sure what to do with KotF, though. A lot of people dropped out right before it stopped, I'm not clear as to what the IC situation we'd be leaving it at is, which is making it difficult to update the Libary. Right now I'm working on screenshots, when I'm done with that should I try to list provincial ownership and feudal relations as they were when everyone was still active?

[Braden]

I hate leaving a story partially untold myself but we're clearly not going to move further forward. I agree though a new thread needs starting to discuss the next big thing.

[TheFlax]

Just wanted to chime that I'm moderately available at the moment, be it to continue KotF (even if it seems unlikely to continue) or to start a new game.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hi guys - sorry to post here off topic but I thought some of you might consider joining one of the hotseat games we have going on in the Throne Room while you decide what to do with your PBM.

We need players in both 'Wrath of the Khan' and 'Dogs of War' - post in the game threads if you are interested.

Hotseats are fun and can involve a lot of RPing if you like that kind of thing.