What Impresses you More...?

[Louis VI the Fat]

I had a debate earlier today. I thought it might be fun to get more opinions here. The issue is in the poll, which, all things going well, should appear above.

[LittleGrizzly]

Overuse of ellipses...

[Beskar]

I don't what the question is, it makes no sense to me.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The question is what impresses you more, fortune inherited or fortune made. Then the poll grants the voter some time for reflection and introspection, and asks the question again. Sorry, it is a bit confusing. Please answer either of the first two poll options, and/or the last two. The middle two options are not answers, but the question.

[Proletariat]

I dunno, if the Old Money person is classier than the New Money person, than I guess the OM is more impressive. I don't know if I know what old money is like in Europe, probably different than over here. But here I've met and seen alot of disgusting rich children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90HhZ-pyC2Y

[Hooahguy]

Overuse of ellipses...

hey, as the self-proclaimed king of ellipses, i demand we meet at noon in the town square with guns drawn, 10 paces.


now, on topic, i definitly think that money earned, hence also new money, is more admirable than people who had it coming.
anyone read "the great gatsby"? its all about old money vs. new money.

[Beskar]

Thanks Louis, now I answered.

[KukriKhan]

That's actually an interesting question. As an American, of course I must default to admiration of newly-made fortunes. Particularly if the fortune-maker started with nothing.

However, there are other things to consider. We've all heard about lottery winners squandering their newfound cash on crap, and ending up penniless. And we've all seen TV accounts of first-generation sons and daughters of self-made millionaires, going bad.

Impresses? Hmmm. I think much can be said for "old money" that started out as some patriarch's good idea; developed and marketed wisely by future generations, especially if those generations had got to double-digits, still held considerable assets, and had figured a way to "give back" to their product constructors and product consumers.

On the other hand, innovation and adaptation are key to our survival as a species, so it must be awarded with appropriate wealth, and applauded.

So, I guess that puts me firmly in the ellipses camp, which I take to idicate the 'new Gah'.

Am I wrong, or is this Louis' first ever poll?

[Louis VI the Fat]

The conversation, in brief:

'X': Earned money is more impressive. It conveys achievement.
L VI: bollox.
'X': You are stuck in the past. We are a meritocracy. People admire the self-made man over the easy path of those born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
L VI: bollox.
'X': What are you going on about?
L VI: People are always more impressed with fortune somebody didn't have to work for, than with fortune for which they did.
Besides, people envy the latter, and admire the former.
'X': I've never heard somebody say he did.
L VI: Because nobody will admit to it. But, look at society, look at class, the mechanism is completely there. In this instance, as in many others, people say one thing and think another.
'X': I don't.
L VI: Yes you do.

[Proletariat]

Ah okay, now I understand it more clearly. Yeah, money stolen or unearned is twice as sweet as money worked for (I think that's a quote from a movie I can't remember, which adds some serious weight). I'd like to change my vote.

Who wants to be Bill Gates? He has to work and be busy all day. Paris Hilton tho? What a gig.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Who wants to be Bill Gates? He has to work and be busy all day. Paris Hilton tho? What a gig.

Yet when Bill Gates dies it'll be 'good riddance', but people will cry for weeks over Diana...

[woad&fangs]

The impressiveness of "old money" depends on how it was acquired in the first place. "Great-great-grand daddy made a fortune off of high quality buttons!" is way less impressive than "Great-great-grand daddy was Grand Duke of the principality of Sealand!"

The same applies to "new money" as well. "I got rich by mass marketing organic tofurkey!" is not as impressive as "Actor, rock star, striker for (Insert major footy team here)".

[Banquo's Ghost]

I am trying to understand the heart of the question, and your exchange with your colleague helps a great deal.

You are trying to understand class and people's reaction to it. Why indeed, class still matters in the modern Western world when the majority falls into the middle class. I did not think so at first reading, but "impressed" is actually a good word to choose. To address this part of the debate may take me some time and thought, so forgive me if I go first to the obvious question in the poll.

First of all, I'm not sure the categories are quite fine enough. I would argue that New Money ought to take in both earned (through entrepreneurial activity) and chance (lottery wins and "celebrities" - ie the vacuous and talentless who nonetheless become rich through circumstance). Similarly, Old Money should be divided into recent inheritance (three generations* from source or so, and invariably a single major source) and stewardship (several generations that have preserved and grown a fortune over time, each contributing).

I am greatly impressed by entrepreneurial money. The work taken to become truly rich through innovation and hard work is a wonder to behold. Money is invariably merely a measure of this work. Often, as befits a business mind, they use money wisely. I do not count bankers in this category, as they are gamblers.

As you might expect, I have great respect (impressed constrains too short a time frame) for those whose families have achieved stewardship. To hold a fortune passed on, and maintain it through the vicissitudes of time and political vagary, is an extraordinary achievement. Again, whilst there is often a generation or two that dented the steady progress, the fact that the accumulated wealth continues to exist (and usually in possession of riches valued and shared by the community, like art and architecture) is a barely conceivable achievement. It places a heavy burden upon each inheritor.

The other types are invariably vulgar and display money as if to justify their existence. There is nothing impressive about luck, much less about celebrity and recent inheritance.


* There's an old saying: Fortune lasts for three generations; one to make it, one to appreciate it, and one to squander it.

[HoreTore]

Yet when Bill Gates dies it'll be 'good riddance', but people will cry for weeks over Diana...

I can assure you, Louis, I have never in my life wept a single tear over the misfortunes of upper-class brats.

[Samurai Waki]

Anybody who can earn the kind of wealth required to be considered in the uppermost wealth bracket is impressive. What I generally find just as impressive, is if that money is well spent, invested, and carried on between generations. Old money doesn't usually last too long, if the people who inherit it don't know the finer principles on how to be frugal. Since so many were born to a life of lavishness, when they become the inheritors many believe the money won't run out... big, mistake.

[CountArach]

Neither impresses me. Why should it? If someone does a great deal of good with this money then I'll be impressed, but the act of earning/inheriting the money itself doesn't impress me in the slightest.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I can assure you, Louis, I have never in my life wept a single tear over the misfortunes of upper-class brats.

Yes, that brat Diana did nothing with her life before she died except successfully promote an international campaign to ban land mines and a treaty (Ottawa Treaty) banning anti personnel land mines which was signed by only 156 countries.

Quite the brat she was, if she had not been born into riches she could have gained your respect, huh HoreTore?

[HoreTore]

Yes, that brat Diana did nothing with her life before she died except successfully promote an international campaign to ban land mines and a treaty (Ottawa Treaty) banning anti personnel land mines which was signed by only 156 countries.

Quite the brat she was, if she had not been born into riches she could have gained your respect, huh HoreTore?

Nope, not really.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Nope, not really.

Well I would love to see what accomplishments you have achieved, so I can fully understand where you set the bar at and figure out how much Diana lacked in gaining your respect.

[Andres]

Why would I be impressed by somebody because he has a lot of money? If the question is about how impressed I am, then the answer is "gah".

As for respect, I respect people who make money through their own hard work. If that person happens to use "old money" to make even more money, then I'll respect that person, just like I would respect somebody who made his fortune out of nothing (assuming the fortune is not being made through crime). Somebody who behaves like a spoiled idiot and wastes money will be considered a spoiled idiot by me; doesn't matter if the money that's being wasted is "old" or "new".

Anyway, you'll need to come with something better than "I have a lot of money" to impress me.

[Fragony]

None of that impresses me, but I can respect someone doing well. Old money, yuk. No respect whatsoever.

[Cute Wolf]

The best thing I do with my salaries as assistant lecturer... After get the money, I usually spare an ammount to go with my GF, and then we go eat something delicious and take a walk to a shopping district... really impressive, because I allready had a scholarship.....

(NB: with the very exception when I got to save my money to buy that ridiculous Empire! the worst money spending that I ever do...)

[Meneldil]

Nouveaux Riches are usually utterly and completely disgusting.

Quickly earned money makes turn people into irresponsible idiots. What makes it even worse is that, while half of them honestly admit they don't give a crap about anything and just spend foolishly their money, the other half try to wrap itself in a cloak of respectability and morality (while they don't really care about anything either).

While I usually can't stand the sons of lawyers/doctors I meet everyday at my university, they at least have something, and education, and attitude, unlike Audrey and other braindead friends. Being the son of a nurse and of a teacher, I feel a bit awkward when dealing with people coming from the former nobility or from the high bourgeoisie (typical class relationship), but I couldn't care less about spoiled brats whose dad got rich by putting up a computer-related start-up.

[Husar]

Hmm, I voted earned money because people who earned their money by building up their own company impress me, partly because they might also know what it's like not to be rich, with earned money I also understand really earned, as in not won or gained through illegal means. Bill Gates impresses me for this reason.

I also voted old money because by new money I usually understand upstarts who just made their first millions and then have to show them around to everybody, they might however mature and become wiser which would also put them into the old money camp as far as my interpretation goes. I wouldn't see Bill Gates for example as new money since his company has existed for over ten years, he's been rich for quite some time, he gives a lot to charity, does not seem to completely spoil his kids, often wears pullovers instead of fancy suits, he earned his money by creating the base for a product that is sold and accepted worldwide now, people may say it's bad but he wouldn't be rich if it was so bad that noone bought it. Yes, he impresses me but I wouldn't call him new money, IMO new wears off after a few years, as has been said, some lottery winners manage to go bankrupt after two years, that would be new money, if they can be reasonable about it, keep it and invest it well, then IMO they start becoming old money, yet it was not earned, neither inherited.

Some people are lucky on the market, some people are lucky in the lottery, some people are lucky at birth, what you do with it is what counts.

[Beskar]

If I won the lottery, I wouldn't be an idiot with it. I would obviously get myself a house (as I haven't the money at the moment to get one) and other things similar to that, but it will pretty much be invested.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Nothing impressive about old money, but you can respect what people do with it. Some new money fortunes are pretty impressive, if only because of the sheer size of them.

anyone read "the great gatsby"? its all about old money vs. new money.

Ugh, don't remind me about that book. Not to mention the film version with Robert Redford... the chararcter that plays Daisy is the most annoying person I've ever seen... it's funny when she gets run over though.

[miotas]

Neither impresses me. Why should it? If someone does a great deal of good with this money then I'll be impressed, but the act of earning/inheriting the money itself doesn't impress me in the slightest.

I think this is an aussie thing, hard working middle class labourers are Australia's "aristocracy". If however, there is a choice between some one who's rich because they were born and some one who got rich by good old hard yakka, then I'll pick the latter.

[Viking]

If I am to be brutally honest; neither impresses me. The world is such a changing place.

Inherited money does certainly not impress me; I loathe the concept of nobility (not nobles...) and anything similar. Of the qualities that one might measure in humans; inherited status may only give a hint of a few; if any at all.

New money might just as well mean the correct surroundings/luck rather than a unique trait of a person; only so and so many rich people may exist.

[HoreTore]

Well I would love to see what accomplishments you have achieved, so I can fully understand where you set the bar at and figure out how much Diana lacked in gaining your respect.

She accomplished what she did only because of her birth and marriage. She accomplished things using her fame, something she wouldn't have if she wasn't the Princess of Wales.

If she had been born as a regular human, I would never have heard of her, and neither would you.

[Adrian II]

I'm not impressed by riches one way or t' other. In my experience the old rich don't deserve their wealth and the newly rich don't know how to spend it. And it shows in both cases.

The Diana thingy made me laugh. A single mother of two who crafted an anti-landmine treaty with her own bare hands. Yeah right..