What Impresses you More...?

[Louis VI the Fat]

The conversation, in brief:

'X': Earned money is more impressive. It conveys achievement.
L VI: bollox.
'X': You are stuck in the past. We are a meritocracy. People admire the self-made man over the easy path of those born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
L VI: bollox.
'X': What are you going on about?
L VI: People are always more impressed with fortune somebody didn't have to work for, than with fortune for which they did.
Besides, people envy the latter, and admire the former.
'X': I've never heard somebody say he did.
L VI: Because nobody will admit to it. But, look at society, look at class, the mechanism is completely there. In this instance, as in many others, people say one thing and think another.
'X': I don't.
L VI: Yes you do.

[Proletariat]

Ah okay, now I understand it more clearly. Yeah, money stolen or unearned is twice as sweet as money worked for (I think that's a quote from a movie I can't remember, which adds some serious weight). I'd like to change my vote.

Who wants to be Bill Gates? He has to work and be busy all day. Paris Hilton tho? What a gig.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Who wants to be Bill Gates? He has to work and be busy all day. Paris Hilton tho? What a gig.

Yet when Bill Gates dies it'll be 'good riddance', but people will cry for weeks over Diana...

[woad&fangs]

The impressiveness of "old money" depends on how it was acquired in the first place. "Great-great-grand daddy made a fortune off of high quality buttons!" is way less impressive than "Great-great-grand daddy was Grand Duke of the principality of Sealand!"

The same applies to "new money" as well. "I got rich by mass marketing organic tofurkey!" is not as impressive as "Actor, rock star, striker for (Insert major footy team here)".

[Banquo's Ghost]

I am trying to understand the heart of the question, and your exchange with your colleague helps a great deal.

You are trying to understand class and people's reaction to it. Why indeed, class still matters in the modern Western world when the majority falls into the middle class. I did not think so at first reading, but "impressed" is actually a good word to choose. To address this part of the debate may take me some time and thought, so forgive me if I go first to the obvious question in the poll.

First of all, I'm not sure the categories are quite fine enough. I would argue that New Money ought to take in both earned (through entrepreneurial activity) and chance (lottery wins and "celebrities" - ie the vacuous and talentless who nonetheless become rich through circumstance). Similarly, Old Money should be divided into recent inheritance (three generations* from source or so, and invariably a single major source) and stewardship (several generations that have preserved and grown a fortune over time, each contributing).

I am greatly impressed by entrepreneurial money. The work taken to become truly rich through innovation and hard work is a wonder to behold. Money is invariably merely a measure of this work. Often, as befits a business mind, they use money wisely. I do not count bankers in this category, as they are gamblers.

As you might expect, I have great respect (impressed constrains too short a time frame) for those whose families have achieved stewardship. To hold a fortune passed on, and maintain it through the vicissitudes of time and political vagary, is an extraordinary achievement. Again, whilst there is often a generation or two that dented the steady progress, the fact that the accumulated wealth continues to exist (and usually in possession of riches valued and shared by the community, like art and architecture) is a barely conceivable achievement. It places a heavy burden upon each inheritor.

The other types are invariably vulgar and display money as if to justify their existence. There is nothing impressive about luck, much less about celebrity and recent inheritance.


* There's an old saying: Fortune lasts for three generations; one to make it, one to appreciate it, and one to squander it.

[HoreTore]

Yet when Bill Gates dies it'll be 'good riddance', but people will cry for weeks over Diana...

I can assure you, Louis, I have never in my life wept a single tear over the misfortunes of upper-class brats.

[Samurai Waki]

Anybody who can earn the kind of wealth required to be considered in the uppermost wealth bracket is impressive. What I generally find just as impressive, is if that money is well spent, invested, and carried on between generations. Old money doesn't usually last too long, if the people who inherit it don't know the finer principles on how to be frugal. Since so many were born to a life of lavishness, when they become the inheritors many believe the money won't run out... big, mistake.

[CountArach]

Neither impresses me. Why should it? If someone does a great deal of good with this money then I'll be impressed, but the act of earning/inheriting the money itself doesn't impress me in the slightest.

[miotas]

Neither impresses me. Why should it? If someone does a great deal of good with this money then I'll be impressed, but the act of earning/inheriting the money itself doesn't impress me in the slightest.

I think this is an aussie thing, hard working middle class labourers are Australia's "aristocracy". If however, there is a choice between some one who's rich because they were born and some one who got rich by good old hard yakka, then I'll pick the latter.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I can assure you, Louis, I have never in my life wept a single tear over the misfortunes of upper-class brats.

Yes, that brat Diana did nothing with her life before she died except successfully promote an international campaign to ban land mines and a treaty (Ottawa Treaty) banning anti personnel land mines which was signed by only 156 countries.

Quite the brat she was, if she had not been born into riches she could have gained your respect, huh HoreTore?

[HoreTore]

Yes, that brat Diana did nothing with her life before she died except successfully promote an international campaign to ban land mines and a treaty (Ottawa Treaty) banning anti personnel land mines which was signed by only 156 countries.

Quite the brat she was, if she had not been born into riches she could have gained your respect, huh HoreTore?

Nope, not really.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Nope, not really.

Well I would love to see what accomplishments you have achieved, so I can fully understand where you set the bar at and figure out how much Diana lacked in gaining your respect.