Recruiting elites in EB2.

[tls5669]

Hope you guys can take some constructive criticism and dont take this the wrong way, thats not my intention.

I was so disheartened reading stele 2.

I really hope you've reconsidered the recruitment rules for elites.

I mean come on man, it takes 1 turn, which is one season, to build a big ass stone fort, but 1 year or more to train a soldier to be a non reform elite?

Looks like EB2 is gonna be great, but unfortunately i'll probably pass. Hope you guys still support EB1 after EB2 comes out. In that version I can run around with 5-6 armies of elites if I can afford them, not have to wait 20 years just to get one army of elites.

[Watchman]

...you *do* realise you're not supposed to have armies of elites running around to begin with, right ?

[Foot]

Hope you guys can take some constructive criticism and dont take this the wrong way, thats not my intention.

I was so disheartened reading stele 3.

I really hope you've reconsidered the recruitment rules for elites.

I mean come on man, it takes 1 turn, which is one season, to build a big ass stone fort, but 1 year or more to train a soldier to be a non reform elite?

In EBI it was instantaneous to build a temporary wooden fort (you didn't have to wait a turn for it to be built). Given that roman armies would build such forts at the end of every march, that makes sense.

In EBII you won't be able to build forts as forts will be used to represent permanent settlements.

In Stele #2 we don't mention, at any point, that it will take one year to build an elite. However they will have lower replenishment rates as they are being recruited from a smaller section of society.

Looks like EB2 is gonna be great, but unfortunately i'll probably pass. Hope you guys still support EB1 after EB2 comes out. In that version I can run around with 5-6 armies of elites if I can afford them, not have to wait 20 years just to get one army of elites.

It sounds like you are playing the wrong game anyway, and you are looking for a different experience than the one which eb offers.

Foot

[tls5669]

Say Carthage has a population of 25,000 people, 1 person in Carthage could be an elite soldier and in turn train 10 people, in turn they train 100, so on and so on. Pretty soon you have a substantial population of Sacred Band Infantry. They train when Carthage isnt at war. So if theres 1000 SB's in Carthage and say I recruit 80 of them I have to wait 2-3 seasons to recruit more?

"Wait Hannibal, you recruited 80 of our brothers, but you have to wait till next year before you can recruit any more of us. We're going over to Hasdrubal's house to play cards, come back in three seasons."

It sounds like you are playing the wrong game anyway, and you are looking for a different experience than the one which eb offers.

Whats the difference in Rome running around in 217BC with about 20 Legions? So I have five or six armies of elites, if I can afford them, why not?

[Bucefalo]

tls5669, I honestly i don´t like what you posted here. You can always mod your own version of EB to suit your tastes, but you are sort of "menacing" to stop playing EB just because you don´t like a feature? What´s the point?

That´s seems childish on your part, but anyway, if you want so badly to have full armies of elites, just edit the export_descr_building to suit your tastes. Stop trying to convince the team to make the mod suit your playstyle (and less saying: "i won´t play unless you make the game as i want it")

Hell, once it is in your computer, just change whatever you want so you can enjoy more your time playing the game, after all is you who is going to play the game on your computer.

I apologise if i am being rude, but i don´t see any point in complaining about this.

[tls5669]

tls5669, I honestly i don´t like what you posted here. You can always mod your own version of EB to suit your tastes, but you are sort of "menacing" to stop playing EB just because you don´t like a feature? What´s the point?

That´s seems childish on your part, but anyway, if you want so badly to have full armies of elites, just edit the export_descr_building to suit your tastes. Stop trying to convince the team to make the mod suit your playstyle (and less saying: "i won´t play unless you make the game as i want it")

Hell, once it is in your computer, just change whatever you want so you can enjoy more your time playing the game, after all is you who is going to play the game on your computer.

I apologise if i am being rude, but i don´t see any point in complaining about this.

Thats why its called constructive criticism. I guess some people are more thin skinned than others.

[Foot]

Matey, your criticism isn't constructive in the slightest. Constructive criticism is impossible at this point anyway, as you seem to pulling numbers out of thin air and generally have a poor understanding of the mechanics themselves. Lastly you appear to be rather loose with your use of the word "elites" and present a rather poor understanding of the armies of the ancient world.

Anyway, from how it sounds, I think you may be playing the wrong game entirely. EB is for those who wish to play a game that does its best to simulate the ancient world. Our recruitment will do that to best of our historical understanding and (as will be necessary) our interpretation. If you would prefer to play a different style of warfare then I would suggest a different style of play.

However threatening to not play EBII because you have intepretated a very rough sketch of how we visualise recruitment in EBII is not constructive and, to be honest, not really criticism.

Foot

[Atilius]

Whats the difference in Rome running around in 217BC with about 20 Legions? So I have five or six armies of elites, if I can afford them, why not?

Because Rome was able to raise an army of that size in the late 3rd century BC, but it was beyond the capacity of any ancient people, kingdom, or empire to raise an army consisting entirely of elites.

[Tellos Athenaios]

EB 1 was if anything too easy on attaining elites. The cost of elite units in your military is much higher than that of levies. Not just in terms of the sheer amounts of money it takes to keep them in the field; also in terms of `power'.

First of all, these men represent and/or wield substantial power and influence within the politics of their faction. Simply put: shifting the burden of military responisbility too much to those who are able to claim something in exchange afterwards is a hughe risk. Calling upon the aid of a warlord means owing the man a favour. Giving an overly ambitious noble the command of an army means risking an ursurpation of your own power.

Secondly calling upon influential but loyal members of the nobility means that you lose much of your influence-by-proxy where they come from. That is if you have someone exceedingly loyal to you in charge of a distant Satrapy with a people that is otherwise not inclined to obey your rule... Calling upon that man to join your army with his own forces leaves your Satrapy exposed to revolt. Furthermore if he is an able governor you have to make do with lesser men to occupy administrative roles. That may earn you a lot of issues too.

[tls5669]

Because Rome was able to raise an army of that size in the late 3rd century BC, but it was beyond the capacity of any ancient people, kingdom, or empire to raise an army consisting entirely of elites.

I never said once that my entire army was elites, I have about 13 or so armies only five are elite, and not even the whole army is, Carthage doesnt have access to an elite archer unit, peltast unit, I dont know if the SB calvary is an elite, I dont have them in my armies, I couldnt afford them at the time, so Ive just stuck with what I have, the Liby-Phoenician Cavalry (Im not a very good calvary commander anyway).

My "elite" armies usually consist of 6 units of either Elite Liby-Phoenician Infantry or Sacred Band Infantry as the front lines. One of them had a couple Elite African Infantry units. Thats it, it isnt like im playing AS, every freaking unit they have is elite. Believe me I know, AS just declared war on me the other night (I ran Egypt out of Africa). Im scared of them a little, theve got some nasty units.