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Thread: The Prince of Wales
SwordMaster looks back at the good ol' days of the slave trade, after all, it was merely exchanging one master for another which also brought about a great economy with it.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
Originally Posted by Beskar:
SwordMaster looks back at the good ol' days of the slave trade, after all, it was merely exchanging one master for another which also brought about a great economy with it.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
Indeedy. As for "not being any corruption in a dictatorship".... Well, that's just plain false. Call it Royal Gifts or whatever you want to, it was still money given directly from the state treasury to the Monarch's obedient friends, instead of benefiting society, like the vast amount of the treasury in democracies are. Also, please do a quick google for <insert random dictator here>+"swiss bank account". Also, when the monarchs raided the treasury, nothing happened. When politicans do it.... Well, have a quick looky at England.SwordMaster looks back at the good ol' days of the slave trade, after all, it was merely exchanging one master for another which also brought about a great economy with it.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
But the very notion that the elite should rule is inherently ridiculous. Why? Because when we give one group of people absolute power, and remove it from another group of people, it will inevitably lead to them cementing their own position and not allowing anyone else in, be it an aristocracy, an oligarky, communist party, whatever. The ruling elite will have no incentive to raise others up to their own class, while they have every reason to do the opposite, because the more you have to share your power, the less power you get yourself.
The fact that the dumbest person on earth has the same power as the smartest person is the greatest strength of democracy. Simply because there is every incentive for the elite to spread knowledge around, and the goal will be to have every single person as intelligent as possible, as every idiots level of intelligence directly affects the way you live.
There will always be idiots. In a dictatorship, they will remain idiots. In a democracy, the intelligent should do their utmost to educate the dumber ones.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Indeedy. As for "not being any corruption in a dictatorship".... Well, that's just plain false. Call it Royal Gifts or whatever you want to, it was still money given directly from the state treasury to the Monarch's obedient friends, instead of benefiting society, like the vast amount of the treasury in democracies are. Also, please do a quick google for <insert random dictator here>+"swiss bank account". Also, when the monarchs raided the treasury, nothing happened. When politicans do it.... Well, have a quick looky at England.
But the very notion that the elite should rule is inherently ridiculous. Why? Because when we give one group of people absolute power, and remove it from another group of people, it will inevitably lead to them cementing their own position and not allowing anyone else in, be it an aristocracy, an oligarky, communist party, whatever. The ruling elite will have no incentive to raise others up to their own class, while they have every reason to do the opposite, because the more you have to share your power, the less power you get yourself.
The point is that the British monarch doesn't rule. She heads the nation, but she doesn't govern the state. While it's arguable whether head of state is a necessary position, if we didn't have a monarch, the most likely model we'd be having would be something like the US, and having seen the reverence that Americans show for their President, I far prefer the status quo of a non-politico in that role.Indeedy. As for "not being any corruption in a dictatorship".... Well, that's just plain false. Call it Royal Gifts or whatever you want to, it was still money given directly from the state treasury to the Monarch's obedient friends, instead of benefiting society, like the vast amount of the treasury in democracies are. Also, please do a quick google for <insert random dictator here>+"swiss bank account". Also, when the monarchs raided the treasury, nothing happened. When politicans do it.... Well, have a quick looky at England.
But the very notion that the elite should rule is inherently ridiculous. Why? Because when we give one group of people absolute power, and remove it from another group of people, it will inevitably lead to them cementing their own position and not allowing anyone else in, be it an aristocracy, an oligarky, communist party, whatever. The ruling elite will have no incentive to raise others up to their own class, while they have every reason to do the opposite, because the more you have to share your power, the less power you get yourself.
Originally Posted by :
SwordMaster looks back at the good ol' days of the slave trade, after all, it was merely exchanging one master for another which also brought about a great economy with it.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
That is bull and you know it, and I have never defended anything like that.SwordMaster looks back at the good ol' days of the slave trade, after all, it was merely exchanging one master for another which also brought about a great economy with it.
People should be prim and proper and know their place. Only speak when spoken to, never disobey. Do as Master says and not as Master does.
What I am defending is restricting the pool of candidates, and doing so by allowing votes to people who are capable of making a decision and appreciating its consequences. I don't want idiots who don't know where they are on a map to be deciding anything for me! And I was pointing out that an educated and sane candidate such as Charles would be a good head of government. I take Louis' point about inbreeding and so on, but that's not what I'm advocating, which is why I brought up the Vatican as an example of an election of a "first among the peers", rather than elevating this man so high from so low he gets vertigo. I mean, think about it, a college degree, which makes you minimally competent to have a job takes 4 years. You're not put in charge of the company at that stage, you're given an internship. Why do you think, then, that a man that has been in power for merely 4 years has any real idea of what he's doing?
The fact that the Netherlands started as a republic and ended up as a monarchy is quite telling too. As it has been pointed out the dutch could have replaced the system if they had wanted to, but didn't. You think they're stupid-"do as Master says and not as Master does"?
As of Hore's rant about corruption, I daresay, yet again, that corruption is unavoidable as long as there is power and people to hold it. British MPs got caught with their expenses accounts, but that only makes me wonder what didn't they get caught with? Or you think that is their only crime?
Honestly, I have to say,
Originally Posted by :
Only speak when spoken to
is not so bad.Only speak when spoken to
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
That is bull and you know it, and I have never defended anything like that.
However, what you imply and suggest is that style of system with the bottom working for master as it is inevitable, right? On the same lines, your stance on the slave trade is you transfer your same argument across is that "you will be serving one master or another, what is the big fuss?".That is bull and you know it, and I have never defended anything like that.
Originally Posted by :
What I am defending is restricting the pool of candidates, and doing so by allowing votes to people who are capable of making a decision and appreciating its consequences. I don't want idiots who don't know where they are on a map to be deciding anything for me!
And this same elite will be telling you what to do as you won't have the vote either. Then again, you don't care if you are pushed around, abused and told what to do from what you are saying. The problem with having a true democracy and fair system of government are people like you who seek to distroy the notion of what government should be and you concentrate everyone on the worse examples and rather play fetch with master.What I am defending is restricting the pool of candidates, and doing so by allowing votes to people who are capable of making a decision and appreciating its consequences. I don't want idiots who don't know where they are on a map to be deciding anything for me!
Originally Posted by :
And I was pointing out that an educated and sane candidate such as Charles would be a good head of government. I take Louis' point about inbreeding and so on, but that's not what I'm advocating, which is why I brought up the Vatican as an example of an election of a "first among the peers", rather than elevating this man so high from so low he gets vertigo. I mean, think about it, a college degree, which makes you minimally competent to have a job takes 4 years. You're not put in charge of the company at that stage, you're given an internship. Why do you think, then, that a man that has been in power for merely 4 years has any real idea of what he's doing?
You are forgetting just like in companies, politicians work up job-ladder in just the same. Becoming PM/President is merely a promotion from a previous position such as member of the cabinet or a senator, they do know what is going on. Then again, why do we need a Head of State?And I was pointing out that an educated and sane candidate such as Charles would be a good head of government. I take Louis' point about inbreeding and so on, but that's not what I'm advocating, which is why I brought up the Vatican as an example of an election of a "first among the peers", rather than elevating this man so high from so low he gets vertigo. I mean, think about it, a college degree, which makes you minimally competent to have a job takes 4 years. You're not put in charge of the company at that stage, you're given an internship. Why do you think, then, that a man that has been in power for merely 4 years has any real idea of what he's doing?
Originally Posted by :
Honestly, I have to say, is not so bad.
Yes it is.Honestly, I have to say, is not so bad.
Originally Posted by Beskar:
However, what you imply and suggest is that style of system with the bottom working for master as it is inevitable, right? On the same lines, your stance on the slave trade is you transfer your same argument across is that "you will be serving one master or another, what is the big fuss?".
Don't be naive. Who do you pay your taxes to? What are they used for? Anything you voted they were used for? Who is responsible for the frankly However, what you imply and suggest is that style of system with the bottom working for master as it is inevitable, right? On the same lines, your stance on the slave trade is you transfer your same argument across is that "you will be serving one master or another, what is the big fuss?".
education systems? High crime? How much money is on your paycheck vs what your company makes from you? I'm not even bringing up child labour in some of these "democracies".Why is it that these "democratic" governments have failed to protect my savings in the financial crisis, ant not only that, but have sunk more billions of public funds into paying bonuses so the people responsible for them could manage to come out on top? Is that not an oligarchy? Is that not preferential treatment? Where are the interests of the man on the street represented?
When "democratic" governments dragged everyone in a war in Iraq and Afganistan despite massive popular protests were they serving your interests? Or those of Blackwater, Colt, Boeing and Co? Do you not see that what you are so fervently attacking is already almost here. It just has a different name.
Originally Posted by Beskar:
And this same elite will be telling you what to do as you won't have the vote either. Then again, you don't care if you are pushed around, abused and told what to do from what you are saying. The problem with having a true democracy and fair system of government are people like you who seek to distroy the notion of what government should be and you concentrate everyone on the worse examples and rather play fetch with master.
If voting made any difference it'd be illegal. I care if I'm being pushed around and told what to do. Which is why I change countries as often as I do. I don't like the feeling of anyone watching my life, and I value my independence. And this same elite will be telling you what to do as you won't have the vote either. Then again, you don't care if you are pushed around, abused and told what to do from what you are saying. The problem with having a true democracy and fair system of government are people like you who seek to distroy the notion of what government should be and you concentrate everyone on the worse examples and rather play fetch with master.
Also I have lived in enough democracies to know that they are not better in any way than any other system. It all depends on the person in power, not the structure of it. I'm yet to see a "true democracy and fair system of government" where people like me actually get to have an opinion that even gets put to a vote. When that happens I will consider changing my mind.
Originally Posted by :
Yes it is.
Well, I, for one, think that your lack of manners is not something to be proud of.Yes it is.
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
Don't be naive. Who do you pay your taxes to? What are they used for? Anything you voted they were used for? Who is responsible for the frankly education systems? High crime? How much money is on your paycheck vs what your company makes from you? I'm not even bringing up child labour in some of these "democracies".
What does that have to do with anything? Democracy is nothing to do with child labour, why is it even being mentioned? You also saying child labour is a bad thing, but on the same time, you are advocating a system which makes everything like that.Don't be naive. Who do you pay your taxes to? What are they used for? Anything you voted they were used for? Who is responsible for the frankly
education systems? High crime? How much money is on your paycheck vs what your company makes from you? I'm not even bringing up child labour in some of these "democracies".Originally Posted by :
Why is it that these "democratic" governments have failed to protect my savings in the financial crisis, ant not only that, but have sunk more billions of public funds into paying bonuses so the people responsible for them could manage to come out on top? Is that not an oligarchy? Is that not preferential treatment? Where are the interests of the man on the street represented?
Because they aren't real democracies. Closest currently in the world is probably Switzerland. Because the systems in place aren't right, doesn't mean you can dismiss the correct way with the logic of "we tried (when we haven't) we failed (when it hasn't been done) lets give up (let oppression come upon us)". Infact you really really want to know the clincher? With the last election of 30% of the population even bothering to vote, it is basically your elite running the country anyway, so if anything, your elite-style is where all the problems are.Why is it that these "democratic" governments have failed to protect my savings in the financial crisis, ant not only that, but have sunk more billions of public funds into paying bonuses so the people responsible for them could manage to come out on top? Is that not an oligarchy? Is that not preferential treatment? Where are the interests of the man on the street represented?
Originally Posted by :
When "democratic" governments dragged everyone in a war in Iraq and Afganistan despite massive popular protests were they serving your interests? Or those of Blackwater, Colt, Boeing and Co? Do you not see that what you are so fervently attacking is already almost here. It just has a different name.
Because they aren't democracies. Isn't that simple? It is a representative of your elites with your elites voting for them and your elites lobbying and other methods making things go their way. So instead of trying to fix the problem, you are advocating just giving it to your elites.When "democratic" governments dragged everyone in a war in Iraq and Afganistan despite massive popular protests were they serving your interests? Or those of Blackwater, Colt, Boeing and Co? Do you not see that what you are so fervently attacking is already almost here. It just has a different name.
Originally Posted by :
If voting made any difference it'd be illegal. I care if I'm being pushed around and told what to do. Which is why I change countries as often as I do. I don't like the feeling of anyone watching my life, and I value my independence.
??? What?If voting made any difference it'd be illegal. I care if I'm being pushed around and told what to do. Which is why I change countries as often as I do. I don't like the feeling of anyone watching my life, and I value my independence.
Originally Posted by :
Also I have lived in enough democracies to know that they are not better in any way than any other system. It all depends on the person in power, not the structure of it. I'm yet to see a "true democracy and fair system of government" where people like me actually get to have an opinion that even gets put to a vote. When that happens I will consider changing my mind.
From what are you talking about, you don't know what a real democracy is as there currently aren't any, with as I said, with the closest probably with Switzerland. You need to brush up on your political theory.Also I have lived in enough democracies to know that they are not better in any way than any other system. It all depends on the person in power, not the structure of it. I'm yet to see a "true democracy and fair system of government" where people like me actually get to have an opinion that even gets put to a vote. When that happens I will consider changing my mind.
Originally Posted by :
Well, I, for one, think that your lack of manners is not something to be proud of.
I think your talk of advocating oppression stupid and if you were a politician and said about letting your masters take us, you will get the infamous shoe/egg thrown at you.Well, I, for one, think that your lack of manners is not something to be proud of.
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
I don't want idiots who don't know where they are on a map to be deciding anything for me!
You don't? Well, then your job is to educate them.I don't want idiots who don't know where they are on a map to be deciding anything for me!
Maybe people should only be able to vote if they go to government run education camps? 
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
You don't? Well, then your job is to educate them.
You don't? Well, then your job is to educate them.
Not MY job. It's their job to educate themselves if they wish to be relevant. Or their parents' job to point out the need for them to educate themselves. I will do my part when or if I'm a parent or I'm setting up my own country.Originally Posted by :
Maybe people should only be able to vote if they go to government run education camps?
What's the public education system?Maybe people should only be able to vote if they go to government run education camps?
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
Not MY job. It's their job to educate themselves if they wish to be relevant. Or their parents' job to point out the need for them to educate themselves. I will do my part when or if I'm a parent or I'm setting up my own country.
You don't see the obvious benefits of having a well-educated work-force...? Not MY job. It's their job to educate themselves if they wish to be relevant. Or their parents' job to point out the need for them to educate themselves. I will do my part when or if I'm a parent or I'm setting up my own country.Idiots affect you, whether you want to or not. And they will affect you economically in a dictatorship. The more educated a people are, the better your economy becomes.
And in a democracy, it will also affect your way of life, as they can vote for their government.
But hey, if you want oppression, who am I to argue? Some people desire freedom, I guess some people desire mistreatment.
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
What's the public education system?
Well since everyone goes through that, do you not come full circle and say everyone should vote?What's the public education system?
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster:
The fact that the Netherlands started as a republic and ended up as a monarchy [..]
The fact that the Netherlands started as a republic and ended up as a monarchy [..]
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