Stewards or Dukes?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

No, since this can be easily changed in descr_strat.txt file by replacing Michiel with Charles.

[_Tristan_]

True... And I left Michel (spelled correctly) in the names file

[TinCow]

Permanent Dukes. As noted in my commentary after KotR ended, the 4 clean groupings on the family tree contributed little but orderliness and caused more problems than it was worth. Trying to make our Houses conform to the tree only results in problems. It is best handled by ignoring it unless the players want to RP the relationships the tree shows their character has. If a player wants to completely ignore their family tree position, they should be free to do so.

[econ21]

...unless the players want to RP the relationships the tree shows their character has. If a player wants to completely ignore their family tree position, they should be free to do so.

I am happy to play with permanent Dukes (which is what the poll is suggesting) but I would regard players ignoring their position on the family tree just as I would regard them ignoring their traits - ie as bad role playing.

I know it's hard to role-play a close family relation with someone you don't really know on the internet and I know it takes two. But completely ignoring a bond of kinship just seems wrong. At least role-play that your father means nothing to you, is distant from you or something.

I'm inclined to suggest that a player who wants to completely ignore their family tree position be given a recruitable general and leave the family members to those who want to role-play family members.

Of course, the above is no criticism of TC, who wonderfully role-played Lothar as a brother to Matthias in KotR.

[Rowan]

During LotR I was of the opinion that we should completely disregard the family tree, because all the adoptions, heir picking AI and MotH events make it a mess.

But now that we have the rule that all FMs belong (at least initially) to the house of their parent it might be more balanced to have all 4 starting houses on the family tree.

+ didn't KotR have a problem with how the family tree was populated from left to right or something? Basically the leftmost branch would get all the new family members while the rightmost got nothing until the whole row was filled out?

After the whole Order of St.John vs. The Rest of the Empire thing during the first half of LotR I'm quite leery of doing anything that will make one house weaker than the others.

[TinCow]

I am happy to play with permanent Dukes (which is what the poll is suggesting) but I would regard players ignoring their position on the family tree just as I would regard them ignoring their traits - ie as bad role playing.

I know it's hard to role-play a close family relation with someone you don't really know on the internet and I know it takes two. But completely ignoring a bond of kinship just seems wrong. At least role-play that your father means nothing to you, is distant from you or something.

I'm inclined to suggest that a player who wants to completely ignore their family tree position be given a recruitable general and leave the family members to those who want to role-play family members.

Of course, the above is no criticism of TC, who wonderfully role-played Lothar as a brother to Matthias in KotR.

I am simply of the opinion that we cannot (and should not) force people to roleplay in a certain manner. It should certainly be encouraged, as it is good for the game, but I would prefer to let everyone decide who their characters are on their own. Even the best roleplayers ignore random traits that pop up late and have no conceivable relationship to the character they have built. The same can easily be true for relationships that appear on the family tree, particularly due to adoptions. While many of these could be roleplayed if the player worked at it, there's no way to force them to do so and so I prefer to keep the rules out of it.

+ didn't KotR have a problem with how the family tree was populated from left to right or something? Basically the leftmost branch would get all the new family members while the rightmost got nothing until the whole row was filled out?

Yes, Austria was perpetually short on membership until we got fed up with it and allowed RBGs to be recruited.

[Ituralde]

Yes, Austria was perpetually short on membership until we got fed up with it and allowed RBGs to be recruited.

And that's exactly why I prefer permanent Dukes. This helps shift the importance a bit away from the family tree too, which I think is a good idea.

And concerning the roleplaying, I think the choice makes it easier to deal with adoptions. If both sides agree an adoption could then be handled much more like raising someone to a hereditary status and starting a family of his own. Although you could always roleplay it like that too. So whatever pleases should be allowed.

[AussieGiant]

I voted for Stewards.

If people don't want to role-play the family tree then we have a problem.

It can be and was one of the underpinning aspects to the Diet sessions and houses in KotR's.

How anyone can say so is beyond me.

We have and do place importance on the Prince and King in the game. The direct descendence of those people are the families and their on going relationships.

Gentlemen, I strongly suggest everyone realises that this is the case.

Off the top of my head, Romeo and Juliet, Plantagenant, The Houses and their family ties are and should can be our main story line.

No recognising that worries me.

If people want free form, then lets play: Last of the Space Empires or something.

Not something with so much resource material you can study it at university for 4 years and still not get through it all.