What is your class status?

**Prodigal** · 07-09-2009, 18:20

Once upon a time, I was a class less waif, downtrodden, cast adrift in the sea of commuterism, while remaining oppressed by de'man. But since I got an internet connection I've been pleased to learn that I am infact gifted, erodite, the possessor of a rapier like wit, logical, wise, and in almost all ways vastly superior to almost the entire planet!

*present company accepted*

**King Henry V** · 07-09-2009, 23:42

Originally Posted by TinCow

Ironically, measuring someone's class based on those criteria strikes me as far more elitist than measuring based on wealth. It is entirely possible for a poor person from an inner city or a rural area to become successful, contribute a great deal to society, and yet never have a formal education or travel enough to become 'cultured.' While good manners are perfectly accessible to even the poorest people, the whole concept of manners is defined by what the upper class finds acceptable. The poorer you are, the less likely you are to have been raised in a manner that will be deemed acceptable by upper class standards.

I somewhat disagree. Whilst it requires a lot of luck and hard work to make a fortune from scratch, any person with a bit of ingenuity and free time can affect the habits of the traditional upper classes, just look at some of the famous con men of history. Those qualities which Romanus mentioned are not so difficult to attain; indeed I believe that everyone, rich or poor, should be well-mannered and display an interest in culture.

Middle class is I suppose the category into which I fit most accurately. However, I am interested in high-brow culture and display quite a snobbish view, I admit, of the more popular forms of entertainment. I speak in a manner which in England is decidedly "upper class" (I sound similar to Trevor Howard), probably much more "upper-class" than those of the English upper classes of my generation from what little I have seen or heard of them, but this is not an affectation of mine, merely due to being brought up abroad and having attended a French-speaking school, only receiving the influence of my mother's Received Pronunciation English, which has lead to a kind of fossilised variety of it, unaffected by the increasingly rounded-vowels of modern English, or, Heaven forbid, mongrel International School English, which is what a good deal of my friends speak. I also have a taste for smart clothes of a vintage cut, not to mention the finer things in life, a trait which my forebears have amply had. From a cultural point of view, I would fit into the upper-class bracket.

Nevertheless, from an economic perspective, my present situation is definitely middle class, and lower middle class at that. My mother's living is precarious, depending as it does on rented property; my father has a very good job, but for a myriad of reasons which I shall not go into here, he only gives me what the law dictates and no more (parents are divorced). Money has been tight quite frequently; we almost always have a lodger in the flat. Yet despite this, we (my mother and I) have lived quite well, even perhaps quite beyond our means, which probably does not help financial matters.

As to my socio-economic ancestry, it's a bit of a mixed bag, like many people. My mother's maternal grandmother as well as my paternal grandmother were of the German aristocracy, the latter's family owned a bit of land in Silesia. My mother's maternal grandfather was a German Jew who had worked his way up to own several shoe shops in Berlin before the war, and my paternal grandfather came from a family of career soldiers who had risen to officers only in the first world war. Needless to say, neither my great-grandmother's or my grandmother's family particularly liked these respective unions.
Over on the slim portion of my family that is actually English, they were lower-middle class clerks living in St John's Wood, London. However, my maternal grandmother happened to be rather good at cricket and played professionally for the Marylebone Cricket Club, which back in the day would also tour the great houses, universities and schools of the land. Immersed in the world of the English aristocracy, he quickly copied their speech and habits.

All in all a rather prosperous set-up, one would think. However, in 1933 a little man called Mr Hitler came to power in Germany, and did two things which affected me personally. First of all he made it a bit unpleasant for the Jews, so my maternal grandmother and her parents had to hop it to Blighty in 1938, leaving all that they had behind, of course. Secondly he went off and did a silly thing like starting a second world war, which, though it started off quite swimmingly for Germany, didn't quite work out as well as he had planned, with the result that it came second. The Allies decided to amputate a rather large chunk of its territory, which unfortunately for my family included Silesia, handed to Poland, who, blasted commies that they were, even if they hadn't expelled my father's side of the family along with all the other Germans, would have disposessed them for being aristocrats. The ancestral abode was dynamited as testimony to the glory of the triumphant proletariat.

So, as well as packing my grandmother off to England, thus indirectly making me English (by temperament if not entirely by blood), old Adolf robbed me of my rightful place as a heel-clicking Prussian Junker. I hope the bastard is burning in hell as we speak (that and of course for all the other nasty things that he did which haven't effected me directly).

So there you go, the social class of King Henry V explained.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 07-09-2009, 23:47

In the end, it all comes down to Hitler.

**King Henry V** · 07-09-2009, 23:56

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

In the end, it all comes down to Hitler.

Indeed.

I suppose that's a generalised version of Godwin's Law, no?

**edyzmedieval** · 07-10-2009, 00:27

In the tone of my dear friend King Henry V, based on the wealth criteria, I kind of find it hard to judge because my father is the CEO of his own business and the profits acquired go beyond upper middle class. But considering every aspect, my family is upper middle class. From the manner-criteria, I prefer to think of myself as aristocratic. I have always been an elitist but I prefer to detach myself from the immaturity that governs within the people of my age (18-19). I am not generalising, but extensive reading and cultural activity differs me from the others. Regarding the parents, my dad finished computer studies in 1978 (

), mom finished petrochemical engineering or something like that.

Looking back in my family's generations, grandfather was from the working class but grandmother was from the landed aristocracy. Communism confiscated my grandmother's lands and they resumed to a house in the city where my grandfather was born.

In the end, it all comes down to Hitler.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 07-10-2009, 01:21

Originally Posted by TinCow

I don't disagree that that is the current basis on which class is determined. It certainly is. However, I do believe this has not always been the case, and I believe that the decreasing emphasis on wealth is the result of the loss of wealth and power by nobility across the globe, not because of the inherent attributes of 'class' itself. As I see it, the current definition of class is artificial and has been distorted from the much older version of 'class' which placed greater emphasis on money and power and less on individual behavior. There are many people who would have been considered 'upper class' 2000 years ago who would not have been upper class in Victorian Britain, and vice versa.

2,000 years ago the "Upper Class" were either Patricians, as in Rome, or royalty and their extended family. In either case the only way in would be marriage or adoption. I don't think it's that different, sorry to say.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 07-10-2009, 06:50

Originally Posted by King Henry V

I speak in a manner which in England is decidedly "upper class" (I sound similar to Trevor Howard), probably much more "upper-class" than those of the English upper classes of my generation from what little I have seen or heard of them, but this is not an affectation of mine, merely due to being brought up abroad and having attended a French-speaking school, only receiving the influence of my mother's Received Pronunciation English, which has lead to a kind of fossilised variety of it, unaffected by the increasingly rounded-vowels of modern English, or, Heaven forbid, mongrel International School English, which is what a good deal of my friends speak.

Please allow me to congratulate you on your excellent command of syntax - serving as an example to all, which clearly is the product not just of the world's finest schools, as I am tempted to provocatively argue, but won't for the stark contrast it is in to what will be the closing words of this sentence, but of a mind given to learning, a desire to properly express oneself - not to snobbishly distinguish oneself from the masses through immodesty, but, on the contrary, out of respect for the reader - and an understanding of language as a carrier of culture and artistic means of expression, all three of which are virtues which betray their owner as a bearer of true class.

And curse Hitler, that most vulgar of men. A plague on him and his internets henchmen.

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 07-10-2009, 08:57

Originally Posted by TinCow

Only lower class Martians live on Mars. Those with the means to do so have long since moved to Phobos.

I resent that.

**King Henry V** · 07-10-2009, 12:25

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Please allow me to congratulate you on your excellent command of syntax - serving as an example to all, which clearly is the product not just of the world's finest schools, as I am tempted to provocatively argue, but won't for the stark contrast it is in to what will be the closing words of this sentence, but of a mind given to learning, a desire to properly express oneself - not to snobbishly distinguish oneself from the masses through immodesty, but, on the contrary, out of respect for the reader - and an understanding of language as a carrier of culture and artistic means of expression, all three of which are virtues which betray their owner as a bearer of true class.

And curse Hitler, that most vulgar of men. A plague on him and his internets henchmen.

Oh dear, oh dear, that was a rather long-winded sentence of mine. My English teacher would have chided me greatly.

**KukriKhan** · 07-10-2009, 13:34

Originally Posted by King Henry V

Oh dear, oh dear, that was a rather long-winded sentence of mine. My English teacher would have chided me greatly.

Nonsense.

Full-stops and paragraphing are for those with attention def... uh, atten... er, where was I?

**Mouzafphaerre** · 07-10-2009, 14:50

.
With family roots in military aristocracy, we've been of the middle class since my grandfather (paternal) and agrarian-working/middle class on my mother's side.

As for identification, I'm of the Mouzafphaerrian class.

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