Suggestion: About Carthage

**vpapako** · 07-09-2009, 00:32

I have seen the Numidian preview and I must say this thing, nomad settlements that can later grow into towns, it's a very good Idea. I wonder if something similar can be done with Carthage.
I 'll explain myself. Carthage was a trading empire and the members of it's "senate" were merchants(extremely rich ones). most of it's non-African colonies in the western Mediterranean like Sardinia, Corsica and south Hispania were not real settlements but trade stations. That's why it was so easy for the Romans to just "grab" Sardinia and Corsica from Carthage during th mercenaries war. Carthaginians were not a colonising people like the greeks, or an assimilating empire like the Romans. Their political strenghth was based on their fleets and mercenary troops, who were based on it's massive wealth, which was based on TRADE. It was an empire of MERCHANTS, ruled by Merchants. Most of the people of the city of Carthage were also merchants(petty ones though, compared to those that ruled the empire). The colonies in south Hispania, as I mentioned above, were nothing more than trade stations until Hamilcar Barca Colonised half the peninsula, thus creating actual settlements like New Carthage. That's why SINCE Hamilcar's time Carthage was able to massively hire iberian mercs.
What I am proposing is wether it is possible for Cathage to begin the game with most of it's non-African colonies as trade-stations, similar to numidia's nomad camps

**vpapako** · 07-09-2009, 00:40

By the way, I also want to ask once again, if it is possible to somehow reflect in the mod the fact that Carthage mainly hired mercenaries for campains out of Africa. Libyo-Phoinician citizen regiments were mainly used to defend the homeland in times of need. In Hannibal's campaign in Italy they were like 10% to 20% tops.

**A Very Super Market** · 07-09-2009, 02:46

The AI tends to hire out mercenaries anyways.. :P

The mod does reflect the fact that most Carthaginian settlements are trading colonies, as a type 3 government for most of them. Exactly how much this limits recruitment, I can't recall, but it surely does.

However, your idea sounds rather interesting, and I want to see what the team's response is going to be..

**Foot** · 07-09-2009, 08:34

Originally Posted by vpapako

What I am proposing is wether it is possible for Cathage to begin the game with most of it's non-African colonies as trade-stations, similar to numidia's nomad camps

That would not be possible using the same game-mechanic that the nomadic/settled system uses (ie city/castle). The city/castle mechanic cannot be used to represent two or more different systems as the overlap is impossible to contain. Carthage's trade stations would then be usuable by Numidia (and other nomadic factions) to maintain their nomadism, which wouldn't make sense in some systems.

Furthermore, it would be a poor representation of province itself. While Carthage's interest in a province may have been in small trade outposts, that doesn't mean that was all that's there. Other factions, in control of the province, might well find their administration in other parts of the map. As we cannot have a dynamic settlement system based on the types of government and society of each faction, we have to make sure that what we represent occupies common ground.

Of course, how we represent control of a province through government buildings is decidedly more malleable.

Foot

**antisocialmunky** · 07-09-2009, 15:19

Well, you could just use hidden resources to mess with the build options in those trade colonies and then have to follow a build tree for Carthage to turn them into real settlements. See HAYASDAN REFORMS.

**Foot** · 07-09-2009, 18:41

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Well, you could just use hidden resources to mess with the build options in those trade colonies and then have to follow a build tree for Carthage to turn them into real settlements. See HAYASDAN REFORMS.

Nah. We've got an even better way.

Foot

**vpapako** · 07-09-2009, 20:09

I would ask wether you could share it with us but I don't want to become annoying. But can't you just PLEEEEEEEASE give us a hint? Fantastic mod team leader???? LOL(Just kidding around dude). Can't wait for the next preview though

**Foot** · 07-09-2009, 23:36

Just an expanded government system/representation of authority in a province, such that certain buildings depend on the expansion of one's authoriity and power. Y'know, that old crapola.

Foot

**Zarax** · 07-11-2009, 01:36

Originally Posted by vpapako

That's why it was so easy for the Romans to just "grab" Sardinia and Corsica from Carthage during th mercenaries war.

Actually, no.
Romans had an easy time taking Sardinia and Corsica because Carthage was too afraid to do anything more than a formal protest, so they basically surrendered the islands.

Sardinia especially was a special case.
During the mercenary war the cities there chose mostly to "wait and see how it goes", basically staying on the defensive until reinforcements would came from Africa.
In that case the local nuragic tribes waged their most successful military operation since 500BC, kicking the mercenaries out and forcing them to appeal to Rome for help, basically selling them the island.

Later on the romans faced a stubborn guerrilla resistance which gave them a taste of what iberia would later look like, with the last tribes in the interior being subdued during the early empire.