Positioning units for bridge defences

[ReluctantSamurai]

Allowing the enemy to cross a bridge before engaging can lose you the battle unless you can restrict it to one unit only; so it is NOT recommended. The enemy morale seems to rise if they can cross the river and ( it seems ), will eventually fall if they fail to cross.

DEB8: good advice given but I cannot agree with the above statement.

My tactics in defending a bridge almost always encourage the enemy to cross en-masse. This maximizes the impact of morale reducing fire from my teppo as the enemy advances into my V or horseshoe-shaped formation. Enemy units will have to turn one way or the other and thereby expose the flanks or rear of their formation.

When enough units have crossed over the bridge, I can snap shut their escape route back across the bridge using fast-moving flank units, and destroy many units outright without having to chase. It's also the best way, IMHO, to entice the enemy taisho to cross the bridge to rally his faltering troops, thereby giving me a much better chance at killing him.

Any morale boost the enemy might receive for crossong the river (do they really get this or am I missing something?) is totally negated by flank or rear attacks.

Of course tactics may vary depending on whether it's early in a campaign when you can easily 'stuff' a crossing attempt right at the bridge, or later when you have more and varied units to work with.

Just my 2cents, of course.............................

[DEB8]

My tactics in defending a bridge almost always encourage the enemy to cross en-masse. This maximizes the impact of morale reducing fire from my teppo as the enemy advances into my V or horseshoe-shaped formation. Enemy units will have to turn one way or the other and thereby expose the flanks or rear of their formation.

No logical reason why this will not work IF you have enough units ( missile and non-missile ) to closely defend the bridge. However, the more that cross, the harder the defence becomes. Personally, I tend not to purchase lots of Teppo ( as the AI likes wet weather when I do ), so I tend to rely on mainly Archers. Teppo also tend to retreat too quickly when attacked, as do the Archers if you put them at the front.

When enough units have crossed over the bridge, I can snap shut their escape route back across the bridge using fast-moving flank units, and destroy many units outright without having to chase. It's also the best way, IMHO, to entice the enemy taisho to cross the bridge to rally his faltering troops, thereby giving me a much better chance at killing him.

This depends on the way the river runs by the bridge. Sometimes the river's position blocks flanking moves on one side. This also requires allowing dangerous amounts of units to cross and gain a lot of ground. Getting these "fast" units though to the front of the battle can be very difficult too. Note that my method usually attracts the Taisho in anyway, for much the same reason as your method.

Any morale boost the enemy might receive for crossong the river (do they really get this or am I missing something?) is totally negated by flank or rear attacks.

In my games they always seem to fight better when a "bridge-head" is establised. It certainly adds to "my" morale when I can achieve this, as for the game units who knows! I agree this will be more than negated by your method IF it is "pulled off".

Of course, as you seem to have perfected your tactics, you will continue to use them. They may, however, be rather difficult for a "newby" to employ. Mine (to me ), seem easier and they work ( for me ) too.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I tend not to purchase lots of Teppo ( as the AI likes wet weather when I do ), so I tend to rely on mainly Archers.

I never waste koku on the arquebus and go straight for muskets which can still fire in all but the most severe weather. Sure, they get less kills, but it's the morale impact that's key. (and btw, weather is one element that is modeled better in Shogun than any other in the TW series, IMO. compare the thunderstorm at the start of the historical Okehazama battle with a battle during one in RTW, for instance...one has to plan according to the seasons). I will typically have no more than four teppo in a defensive army, and no more than two in an attacking one.

Teppo also tend to retreat too quickly when attacked, as do the Archers if you put them at the front

Teppo are cheap, and if I occasionally get a unit caught by a cavalry charge, there's plenty more where they came from. I also favor training teppo in Owari and Tosa (when I finally acquire them) for the ashi honor bonus which helps reduce routing. Also, I usually put them in "Hold Position" and "Hold Formation" which also helps. My favorite tactic with teppo involves luring enemy cavalry to charge a teppo unit (in two lines instead of the usual three, fire-at-will is off). I use a CA as bait, and when the enemy cav gets close enough, I send the CA through the teppo who then get off a full volley at close range and then retreat behind the CA, who by this time close formation and charge what's left of the enemy unit. If assisted by another cavalry unit attacking from flank, only a very high honor unit will stay to fight.

This depends on the way the river runs by the bridge. Sometimes the river's position blocks flanking moves on one side.

Agreed. Sometimes that is the case.

I agree this will be more than negated by your method IF it is "pulled off".

Of course, as you seem to have perfected your tactics, you will continue to use them.

From my recent Nobunaga's Ambition Campaign (Oda 1580, expert level):

https://imgcash2.imageshack.us/Himg1...=640&ysize=480

https://imgcash3.imageshack.us/Himg1...=640&ysize=480

It's really not that difficult to pull off and the results can be staggering to an opponent.

But, as you say, everyone has their own way, and if that works, then so much the better

[DEB8]

I never waste koku on the arquebus and go straight for muskets which can still fire in all but the most severe weather.

I agree re the arquebus. Don't like the Catholic priests anyway - inbuilt from watching Shogyn on TV! I have played mainly on STW rather than STW (WE) so far, so rain has ALWAYS been a problem.

weather is one element that is modeled better in Shogun than any other in the TW series, ... one has to plan according to the seasons). I will typically have no more than four teppo in a defensive army, and no more than two in an attacking one.

If the enemy have lots of Teppo I attack in Spring or Autumn, If I have several I attack in Summer ( if I can ). As I like Cavalry I rarely attack in Winter, but I like it when an AI army with Cavalry does!!

Also, I usually put them in "Hold Position" and "Hold Formation" which also helps

I've picked up on that lately. It's more useful with Samurai Archers though ( I find ).

My favorite tactic with teppo involves luring enemy cavalry to charge a teppo unit (in two lines instead of the usual three, fire-at-will is off). I use a CA as bait, and when the enemy cav gets close enough, I send the CA through the teppo who then get off a full volley at close range and then retreat behind the CA, who by this time close formation and charge what's left of the enemy unit.

Nice idea. I haven't used a screen ( like that ) yet.

[DEB8]

ReluctantSamurai

I tried out your bridge defence plans in two battles today and won twice.

I noted that the AI troops ( in my games ), tended to attack parts of the "line" rather than most of it, limiting the effects of the Teppo units and minimising the abilities of the "fast" units ( I used Yari Cavalry & No-Dachi ), to attack the flanks or rear of the enemy. It also proved impossible to cut off most of the enemy from the bridge, and one battle became an "on the bridge" battle after the "Taisho less" enemy rallied. Suprisingly a lot of my Yari units remained completely un-engaged, so I could have had a smaller army than the enemy, and still have won.

Therefore, it appears; your plan works reasonably well ( contrary to my reservations ). My previous posted recommendation to only allow one enemy unit at the most to cross the bridge was indeed incorrect. Apologies.

I also note that AI has 4 major problems in trying to use this plan itself :

1 .It always "draws up" in a line, rather than in the required curve.
2. It "fires" at you too soon to effect any kind of a trap by drawing you in.
3. It attacks too soon with its units to effect any kind of a trap by drawing you in.
4. It attacks frontally rather than in the flanks.

It's just as well, otherwise we would never capture a bridge province ourselves!

[ReluctantSamurai]

No apologies necessary, mate! As you said, everyone has their way of doing things, and whatever works for you is a good plan.

My way does require some good timing (ie. much micro-managing) but as you saw from my screenies, can be devastating. I use a 'creep' method against multiple stacks. I stand off a bit from the bridge for the first wave allowing large numbers of enemy troops to cross before giving them a good dose of fire. When this first wave has been destroyed, I move closer to the bridge to allow my teppo to fire on troops as they are crossing, yet staying out of range of enemy archers and teppo. I then use my cav to cross over to chase off any remaining archers before the next wave hits.

limiting the effects of the Teppo units and minimising the abilities of the "fast" units

As you noted, some bridge provinces have quirky bends, and I might add, random dips in terrain in front of your position that can affect teppo placement. I've played enough in every bridge province to know just where to place teppo for greatest effect, so it does take some micro-managing.

Suprisingly a lot of my Yari units remained completely un-engaged, so I could have had a smaller army than the enemy, and still have won.

I never deploy my entire army at the bridge, especially against a multiple-stack invasion. At most, I deploy three archers (and keep two in reserve if I have them) and about half of my infantry. Cavalry is deployed to the flanks with one unit (and my Daimyo if he's involved) kept dead-center on the bridge behind my Yari. These are for chasing off enemy archers once they've lost their infantry support. If you look closely at my screenies you can see a fair amount of kills stretching away from the bridge on the enemy side. Those are mainly the enemy archers. Keeping fresh units available is important for long battles where fatigue becomes a factor. That second screenie in Mikawa was from a battle that took almost two hours to resolve (obviously I play with the timer off) and you'll notice my two musket units are not on the field for the ending.......they ran out of ammo so I withdrew them

It's just as well, otherwise we would never capture a bridge province ourselves!

Indeed! I always try for the crappiest weather possible to minimize enemy archer fire, and sometimes it will take several attempts to wear down enemy forces before you can take a heavily defended bridge.