The pike issue

[Zild]

(This is intended for various posters, but certainly not the preceding poster.)

What pikes are supposed to be:
Good at defending, especially against cavalry.

What pikes are not supposed to be:
Good at attacking.
Good at chasing routed cavalry.
Good at soaking up missile fire.
Good at demolishing walls.

As IncubusDragon was saying, use the right tool for the job. If you want a good attacker, use knights (mounted or dismounted, depending on opponent). If you want to chase routed cavalry, use light cavalry. If you want to soak up missile fire, use peasants. If you want to demolish walls, use artillery.

Yes, you can mod pikes to make them good at something they are not supposed to be, but what would be the point? Whilst you're at it, why not give them higher stats, horses, shields and shoulder-mounted culverin? Because they're not supposed to have them, that's why. If they did, no other units would be required.

Use pikes for what they are - a good defence that needs balanced support from other units capable of performing other functions.

Why else do you think pikes have been "bugged" in this way since RTW?

[gardibolt]

Nice work, Incubus Dragon. On the YouTube video, am I understanding correctly the pikemen were initially on Guard, and then you shut it off after the initial charge? Pretty effective how they instantly routed the initial cavalry charge.

[IncubusDragon]

Nice work, Incubus Dragon. On the YouTube video, am I understanding correctly the pikemen were initially on Guard, and then you shut it off after the initial charge? Pretty effective how they instantly routed the initial cavalry charge.

Aye, that's right mate... in the YouTube clip, the pikemen are already bracing in "guard mode". I then removed their "guard mode" after impact at around 35/36 seconds into the clip.

After melee combat was underway, I sent in my supporting troops... I was using Highland Nobles in the YouTube clip, but that was probably a bit of overkill, as I can regularly use any unit in the exact same role - right down to and including peasants, albeit usually also with the standard "sword-and-shield" tactic of flanking cavalry hitting the engaged enemy unit in its flank and/or rear.

The other thing I would mention is that if you're using unarmoured pike units (e.g. Highland Pikemen), then it's vital to prioritise eliminating enemy archers as early in the battle as possible, or your tight formation of slow-moving pikemen can easily be significantly depleted due to casualties before clashing with the enemy... which would result in a shaken morale that would make them more inclined to rout at the commencement of melee combat. It's mostly a question of timing - Border Horse are usually fast enough to get in there and hit-and-run the enemy archers with minimal casualties so long as you don't let them get bogged-down in melee combat... but even if it is worst case scenario, I reckon it's worth sacrificing a unit of Border Horse to take out the enemy's archers in order to keep your pike units at full stength.

[Old Geezer]

The problem with unmodified pikes is that they are the worst unit in the game even at defense. (Well, swordstaff militia may suck even worse because they have shorter pikes and can't out run a 3-legged tortoise.)

I have tried every combination of formation for them. They die quicker and run faster than any other unit. If you play with their formation they will delay some but not enough to be significant. This unit is about as realistic as the elephants with extreme range cannons. Personally, I am beginning to think that the designer or programmer responsible must have an incredible bias against historical warfare. If pikes were this stinking poor, why did not the Scots just throw rocks. At least they had a huge supply of them.

[Cute Wolf]

@ OldGeezer
Sure, you never know the strength of the pikes lies in patiently lure enemy formations to impale themself with long pointy sticks, but they could be used offensively with pressing alt, and prepare for much micro. Just don't expect it was as easy as sending english armoured swordsmen to charge enemy line... afterall, Scots is about the Braveheart.....

[Old Geezer]

If pikemen were such crappy attackers why did the late medieval armies come to be dominated by them? In western Europe historically only pikes and longbows were able to defeat knights/men-at-arms. It took way too many years to train longbowmen for them to become the mainstay of large armies. Pikemen were far easier to recruit and train to the level of discipline required. Nobles would chafe at the disciple required but the burghers could handle it as they weren't out for glory and honor but sought to stay alive and perhaps get some loot.

[Sebastian Seth]

I actually use the mentioned Swordstaff Militia and it is working great for me.

I never use them for attack since danish have Norse Axemen and Norse Swordmen to do that. But in defence I usually have 2 Archer/Crossbow Militia, 2 Spear Militia and 2 Swordstaff Militia.

I put them on both sides of road where city centrum and the road from gate comes. Then I put the spear militia in the middle in schildrom and the archers/crosbowmen behind them.

Looks like little this: (A=archer, P=swordstaff, S=spear, []=building corners)
[ ]
P S S P
A A

I rarely move them, In some cases I move them back and reform them and let them take on the cavarly that comes around and between the spears. Archers are doing most of the killing and spears are not really doing much else than "turtling" in the middle.

If theres an opening I charge forward with spears and archers. Then reform the pikes and run back behind them. Or just scildrom the spears again to the point where i am and then move the pikes to poke the ones going to backside of the spears.

...

I agree that historically there was a lot of pikes but I dont think there where so much pure pike units. I would guess there might have been mixed units of pikes with some traditional melee fighters. That way the melee fighters could go to frontline and pikes would support from behind them. And when cavarly charges they switch places. I also read somewhere that there was two handed swordsmen in pike units to cut the enemy pike units pikes.