Mafia Mongolica [Concluded]

This is some serious bandwagon that apparently I am missing. While split has just been lurking does not mean he is mafia. We already voted out FH mistakenly because he had not said anything, so why do it again this early in the game. Wait till later in the game to do it.

This is some serious bandwagon that apparently I am missing. While split has just been lurking does not mean he is mafia. We already voted out FH mistakenly because he had not said anything, so why do it again this early in the game. Wait till later in the game to do it.

I think it is because that we feel that Beskar's current style is not unusual, and whilst it may be to one who doesn't really play with him, its just, his way of handling things.

Wait till later in the game to do it.

The merits behind getting rid of lurkers is a fine balance between removing someone who is currently not contributing actively and is unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future, thus becoming a vote that the town loses, as well as doing it too dogmatically such that the mafia is able to blend it and hide within it.

But generally, its not the end game that one should be focusing on the lurkers, by then, we *hopefully* should have narrowed down the pointer at suspicious characters through discussion, and with some luck, eliminate the mafia.

This is generally why discussion is very important in a game, particularly games such as these where town mainly relies on analysis and etc, and lurking is simply just going to help the mafia.

There have been many games where the mafia have had walkovers simply because the town did not actively discuss enough.]

Edit: On the other side of the coin, being too overzealous about it is why people also tend to avoid either trying to focus on one person.

Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Unvote:ATPG Vote:Beskar Get rid of the guy who is "Always going to be lynch bait" (Nothing personal Beskar but your too big a threat to town)...."If we always look back, we well never move forward" Lynch Beskar and get it over with...

Just an example to cite.

Originally Posted by atheotes

so whats the case on split anyways

seems like a bandwagon to me

A-yup. It is most curious and warrants examination. The split votes started as an effort to get him talking, and then snowballed into a convenient target to spare Beskar. As the former purpose has been served, those who are voting for him who are not using the 'Save Beskar!' excuse are extremely suspect. This currently includes Chaotix and AVSM. Khazaar is also in the category, but appears to be voting for split out of sheer laziness.

You fail to see that me and Chaotix never put him ahead. I did it for the chil- tie! And some wordplay. It was good fun.

Unvote, Vote: Khazaar

spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)

Beskar : 5 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, Tincow)
Khazaar : 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)

Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)

Because joining a bandwagon on someone who voted for you isn't silly at all.

This round will end at exactly 5:30 AM CST, or 10:30 GMT, regardless of whether I am on and the writeup is posted.


EDIT: Khazaar vote for splitpersonality.

Hrmph. If a choice must be made between split and Beskar, and apparently it must, Beskar is the better option. A weak case is better than no case.

Vote: Beskar

spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)
Beskar : 5 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow)

Khazaar : 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)

Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)

Remember TinCow, when there was a stupid bandwagon on you, who stood by your side, in attempts to save you, because as an accused Townie themselves, they believed you were not the Mafia, and actually stood up against the almightly bandwagon and go "No, look, you lot, are wrong, this Metal Beefy chum of mine is not a Mafia!". When everyone was after you, you was like a beacon of light standing there going "You shalt not pass!"...

You should have learnt that Beskar is a friend for life.

Originally Posted by Beskar

Remember TinCow, when there was a stupid bandwagon on you, who stood by your side, in attempts to save you, because as an accused Townie themselves, they believed you were not the Mafia, and actually stood up against the almightly bandwagon and go "No, look, you lot, are wrong, this Metal Beefy chum of mine is not a Mafia!". When everyone was after you, you was like a beacon of light standing there going "You shalt not pass!"...

I am currently voting for you because after a rather decent day's worth of discussion, you remain the best case that has been presented. I am curious about several other people, but not sufficiently so to vote for them. The case against you is minimal at best, but it is there at a basic level. If you have a stronger case against someone else, please present it. What you need to do at this point is not defend yourself, but give us some viable reason to lynch someone who isn't you.

I gave more about Reenk Roink to be lynched than any case so far. The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him". Hell, even you had a case about Reenk Roink, then decided not to carry on through with it. So you doing this, is some what suspect. Even Sigurd thinks the case against me is not the right one, so does Pizza, so is Death is Yonder.

If you notice, there is a bunch of people which think I am not guilty, is it normal in Mafia for people to actually defend other people? Are all those people Mafia? No, this is what they are. They are all Beskar's. Join today and get a free virtual t-shirt proclaiming your Beskar-ness, in a variety of colours and designs.

So finally some things new emerge from the woodwork.

I'm suspicious of anyone who voted for splitpersonality. What was the reason? All I can think of is that he voted without giving a reason and he was third on the bandwagon on me. The first while indeed not really being any paragon of innocence cannot be so damning as to lynch when there are more well developed reasons for voting another and the latter is a cliche which has little worth.

The reason why I am suspicious of people voting split is because I think this would be plausible Mafia reasoning: Atpg, Beskar, and Reenk are likely to go anyway so let's keep them around when we need patsies more and try to get rid of another like FactionHeir or Beefy.

To be honest, I'd rather you lynch me than splitpersonality. The same applies to Khaazar by the way.

Now then, these are the people that should be focused on imo:

Beskar, Atpg, Reenk (you know...)

Tratorix (explained before too)

Sigurd:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Sigurd

I feel that Beskar is not the right choice this round. There will be ample time to lynch him later should we go for that option.

This post fits in to what I was thinking. Keeping us suspicious folk around as long as possible for a rainy day, taking a convenient lynch on split...

Death is Yonder (votes split and then talks about something unrelated)

TinCow:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by DJGingivtis

Vote : Tin Cow

Beskar: 2 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen)
Reenk Roink 2: (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (White_eyes:D, gibsonsg91921)
Khazaar: 2 (spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Askthepizzaguy)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty: 1 (Chaotix)
Tin Cow: 1 (DJGingivitis)

My reasoning is very simple. You have only gone after people who have started voted for people who look suspicious. However I feel that if you attempt to make a case on these people who are voting off of other people's actions that you are trying to delay someone dying perhaps yourself. Something about you stirring everything up seems odd. In the 2nd round you randomly switched to YLC. I had my suspicions about YLC up until now. His power to cast his vote for someone else's thoughts scared me. It is modern politics. But now I discovered you, a greater evil. And for this reason I shall vote for you. And YLC, my apologies but I ask you know, kind merchant, lend me your vote, vote for Tin Cow. Get rid of this murderous man.

I agree with points of this case, and would have considered TinCow to be trying to keep us patsies around as long as possible until he voted Beskar... Turning a new leaf, faking us out, or legitimate?

Chaotix and Khaazar (the former tried to justify his vote because split voted himself. Kinda lacking, I agree but maybe it's genuine and it doesn't have the malevolent feel like say Sigurd's vote. Khaazar voted split cause Atpg would give him a cookie. I don't know if he'd get it, though it would be cool if he did, and his vote would be very understandable )

Originally Posted by pevergreen

Can't you guys tell reenks alignment?

Its clear as day to me every game.

Not everyone has the pevereenk connection.

P.S: Thank you very much YLC.

Originally Posted by Beskar

I gave more about Reenk Roink to be lynched than any case so far. The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him".

No you didn't and no it's not.

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

No you didn't and no it's not.

Yes I did and yes it is.

Yay I'm getting lynched!

Now I can focus on my game.

In all seriousness it's a waste of a lynch, but I suppose lynching someone innocent in place of no lynch is always good!

Originally Posted by Beskar

Yes I did and yes it is.

Your case against me is that I panicked when you called me out so I went on to retaliate vote against you and built a "post hoc" case against you in an attempt to justify it. Is this correct?

If so, I have already responded to this long ago (to which you put an animation of Michael Jackson anachronistically in his Smooth Criminal suit dancing to Beat It saying "Lynch Reenk").

I pointed out that I was in no danger to be lynched when you called me out, nor have I been in any real danger to be lynched at all. I also pointed out that your entire accusation of my case being "post hoc" is simply unconvincing because of course I noticed a connection between you and Atpg after you "called me out" because you clearly stated your belief in Atpg's innocence.

Furthermore your very own case against me retaliation voting against you is "post hoc" itself, so if you are trying to imply that a post hoc case has some defect (which is what I believe you are trying to imply) than by your own standard your case against me is weak.

No, I called you out, you voted me. It's the start of this tale.

Unvote; Vote:Beskar maybe I CAN save myself for a round...

I have to agree with tincow, there is no argument against me besides the fact that I am sadly not beskar, this is a **** argument tbqh

Tally:

Beskar : 6 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow, Splitpersonality)
spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 5 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar)


Khazaar : 1 (AVSM)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)

Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)

Originally Posted by Beskar

The case against me is "Beskar is lynch bait, kill him".

This is not remotely true. There are a few solid pieces of evidence against you. First, Reenk pointed out a posting/voting pattern that indicated a possible connection between you and ATPG. This was before ATPG just decided to be open about it and lead the Save Ferris! campaign. Second, GH's murder indicates an attempt to get rid of someone voting for you or to frame you. While this is a WIFOM situation, combined with the first point, it is at least something to go on.

It is not a strong case. I've said that many times. But I have yet to see a stronger one be presented. Thus, I encourage you to present a stronger case if you want to sway my vote. I assure you, I am not a bandwagoner and will give due consideration to your words.

Hell, even you had a case about Reenk Roink, then decided not to carry on through with it.

Reenk is notoriously difficult to read. I am wary of him and will certainly spar with him plenty more in the future, but I am not comfortable making a judgment call on him yet.

One final note, I would like to bring some attention back to this bit that I posted earlier and which has so far been ignored:

Originally Posted by TinCow

Originally Posted by Sigurd

I can tell that ATPG and Beskar have had outofthread communication, but I can't see that 'khaan forbids it as long as there are no quoting of PM's or revealing victory conditions. Mafia or TIN? Hard to tell.

Originally Posted by Beskar

There hasn't been any out of thread communication between me and Pizza either, as I said before this statement, maybe he was just repaying the favour where I helped stop him getting needlessly lynched.

Interesting disparity here. Sigurd, why do you think they've been chatting?

Since that post, Sigurd has proclaimed that Beskar isn't the right choice for a lynch this round without further explanation. I would very much like to hear more from him on this subject.

Unvote; Vote: Splitpersonality

For doing that.

Originally Posted by Beskar

No, I called you out, you voted me. It's the start of this tale.

Assertions without reasons should be dismissed without reason. Despite that I have actually taken the time to respond to your case. I'm pretty sure that's why despite the inherently limited nature of my own case, it has manifold amounts of persuasive appeal as compared to yours.

@ TinCow: What do you think about what I think about Sigurd? That he is simply trying to make a list of patsies for later? It would explain that comment on Atpg and Beskar and also explain why he did not actually bother to ever lynch Beskar when there was another alternative?

Yeah, because obviously, me, Tratorix, ATPG, Sigurd, Death is Yonder and anyone else who doesn't follow your bandwagon are Mafia. Even though there are only two Mafia.

If anything, I bet the Mafia is in your bandwagon and on top of that, it could even be you.

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

@ TinCow: What do you think about what I think about Sigurd? That he is simply trying to make a list of patsies for later? It would explain that comment on Atpg and Beskar and also explain why he did not actually bother to ever lynch Beskar when there was another alternative?

Sigurd certainly warrants further scrutiny. Review of his posts shows him giving a surprising amount of credibility to the 'third on the bandwagon' joke.

Btw APTG, what happened to your Midas uber-network of finding mafia? Last I heard was your Great Wall of Text in Godfather 3.

Originally Posted by White eyes

Unvote:ATPG Vote:Beskar Get rid of the guy who is "Always going to be lynch bait" (Nothing personal Beskar but your too big a threat to town)...."If we always look back, we well never move forward" Lynch Beskar and get it over with...

Scummy, scummy, scummy...

Anyone voting to lynch Beskar by the excuse of "He's lynch bait" and "a danger to the town" should be very closely looked at. This isn't the first round, you should be able to come up with better reasoning for your vote than that.

Unvote, Vote: Splitpersonality. Way too quick to pull the trigger on a self vote and I still think Beskar is innocent.

When does the round end?

12 hours.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by TinCow

Sigurd certainly warrants further scrutiny. Review of his posts shows him giving a surprising amount of credibility to the 'third on the bandwagon' joke.

'Tis hardly a joke, as much as we laugh when throwing it around, time after time it has proven itself to be correct.

Its just the right amount of votes for the mafia to vote without being noticed, but not far enough back to be a bandwagoner.

Its caught me out before, I did it, lynched the next day and I was mafia.

edit: Without realising I did it.

Since no one else is voting for Khazaar, I will vote for Split, because I'm bananas, and bananas don't take orders for Transition Metals, or hooved mammals.

They don't have ears either.

Unvote, Vote: Split

Originally Posted by pevergreen

'Tis hardly a joke, as much as we laugh when throwing it around, time after time it has proven itself to be correct.

Its just the right amount of votes for the mafia to vote without being noticed, but not far enough back to be a bandwagoner.

Its caught me out before, I did it, lynched the next day and I was mafia.

edit: Without realising I did it.

Want to buy a bridge?

Originally Posted by TinCow

Want to buy a bridge?

I have been looking for a solid investment.

spL1tp3r50naL1ty : 8 (Chaotix, ATPG, Sigurd, DiY, Khazaar, Beskar, Tratorix, AVSM)
Beskar : 6 (Reenk Roink, pevergreen, YLC, WE:D, TinCow, Splitpersonality)

Askthepizzaguy : 2 (gibsonsg91921, Jolt)
Tin Cow : 1 (DJGingivitis)
Abstains : 1 (Ichigo)
not voting : 2 (Caius, LW)

=============================================

So far as I am aware, this is the tally. Ok after a few hours of sleep, I'm here... again.

To answer your question, Jolt, the system has been completely designed and programmed by Kommodus and myself, and it's installed on my system right now, I just haven't gotten around to testing it yet.