Mafia Mongolica [Concluded]

[Reenk Roink]

Edit:Well, I have no problem being lynched to be honest You disappoint me Reenk....but you were just covering all your bases

I picked you to spill the beans when I got a gut feeling of my demise for a third reason. You're a loose cannon. Loved the cultist bit.

If you're on my side (town) you won't be surprised or feel bad for being "thrown under the bus"

[Askthepizzaguy]

Reenk-

If you would refrain from crucifying me for one moment, consider this.

I reveal all the confirmed innocents. Guess who dies first? People I haven't investigated, or people I have? I would prefer to protect their identities. I have informed people who the innocents are, so in the event of my death, it is known. That would be better play in my opinion. I would prefer to keep known innocents alive as long as possible, something I stated to you explicitly in my reveal to you a few days ago. This is not news. It is my policy.

If you would like me to restate what my role is, instead of quoting, here it is: I am a watcher, as I told you in my reveal. I can't detect guilt, only activity and what that activity is. An inactive mafia would therefore not be revealed. That's all I have to say without quoting the PM. What more were you expecting?

As a confirmed innocent, I value your opinion, but I won't follow advice which I consider to be in bad judgment. I did everything I am allowed and required to do in this situation and thensome, there's nothing more I can do. If the town decides it wants all my information regarding the innocents now, then I'd need more support for that idea, and I strongly advise against it.

[TinCow]

Changing your position?

It's called compromising. I said 3-4 turns, you said immediately. So, I modified my position to be between the two to try and find a middle ground.

[Reenk Roink]

I'm not crucifying you, I'm being cautious, more so given the kill choices and your behavior. Imagine had I not told White eyes about you, you would have somewhat of a free ride as Mafia (thank God for the gut).

I reveal all the confirmed innocents. Guess who dies first? People I haven't investigated, or people I have? I would prefer to protect their identities. I have informed people who the innocents are, so in the event of my death, it is known. That would be better play in my opinion. I would prefer to keep known innocents alive as long as possible, something I stated to you explicitly in my reveal to you a few days ago. This is not news. It is my policy.

This has already been considered by me and yet the benefit of this does not come close to outweighing the harms of not telling us imo.

By revealing, sure the people are almost cleared and good targets for kills, but on the other hand, the focus on the Mafia drops nearly a third (including yourself and White eyes). There is then ample time to analyze these people and be able to ignore other potential misleads that may occur should you not reveal.

As the population gets less and less, the probable innocents become less important to hide anyway, and focusing on a subset of people gets more important.

If you would like me to restate what my role is, instead of quoting, here it is: I am a watcher, as I told you in my reveal. I can't detect guilt, only activity and what that activity is. An inactive mafia would therefore not be revealed. That's all I have to say without quoting the PM. What more were you expecting?

To be quite honest the name watcher just sounds off given the theme of this game. Thanks for the other info though.

[White_eyes:D]

You're a loose cannon. Loved the cultist bit.

If you're on my side (town) you won't be surprised or feel bad for being "thrown under the bus"

I admit you made me laugh.... Fine, I am tired of this anyway...I just wish you would be able to tell when I am not Mafia for once

[Askthepizzaguy]

This has already been considered by me and yet the benefit of this does not come close to outweighing the harms of not telling us imo.

By revealing, sure the people are almost cleared and good targets for kills, but on the other hand, the focus on the Mafia drops nearly a third (including yourself and White eyes). There is then ample time to analyze these people and be able to ignore other potential misleads that may occur should you not reveal.

Next round, if we are on the way to lynching an innocent, I will speak up and say nay nay. Then we will avoid lynching a townie, and unless that situation happens, I don't feel the need to divulge it. Keeps the mafia guessing. The info will be known by any critical round. It certainly wouldn't be prudent to reveal it this round, out of all the options I feel that is the weakest.

That's my call.

As the population gets less and less, the probable innocents become less important to hide anyway, and focusing on a subset of people gets more important.

I disagree. The fewer people there are, the more valuable known/probably innocent players are, as they form a greater and greater percentage of the vote.

To be quite honest the name watcher just sounds off given the theme of this game. Thanks for the other info though.

You're welcome, though I revealed all of that in my original messages to you; I did speak of the limitation of the ability. White_Eyes posted it, so it is there for all to see.

[TinCow]

This has already been considered by me and yet the benefit of this does not come close to outweighing the harms of not telling us imo.

By revealing, sure the people are almost cleared and good targets for kills, but on the other hand, the focus on the Mafia drops nearly a third (including yourself and White eyes). There is then ample time to analyze these people and be able to ignore other potential misleads that may occur should you not reveal.

This isn't an either/or case. We can still get ATPG's information after he's dead without breaking the rules. If ATPG is murdered, he can still easily prevent us from lynching someone he cleared before he died. He can just say "Lynching XXX would be a very bad idea" or something similar. If he's murdered, he will have been cleared from suspicion as a mafioso and we will thus believe what he says. You saw how effective this type of play was by GH in your own Settlement game. If it worked there, there's no reason it can't work here.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Personally, I think that if ATPG were lying, he would have worked harder to appear genuine. Overloaded us with information and dared us to call him out on it. The amount he's given us speaks of someone who is truthful but doesn't want to play his entire hand for us.

Also, um, Lynch: Beskar

[Chaotix]

Personally, I think that if ATPG were lying, he would have worked harder to appear genuine. Overloaded us with information and dared us to call him out on it. The amount he's given us speaks of someone who is truthful but doesn't want to play his entire hand for us.

Also, um, Lynch: Beskar

I'd actually like to know how ATPG knows Beskar is innocent. From what I've gathered, he doesn't have complete investigative abilities, and Beskar doesn't have an ability at all. So why is Beskar still hanging around?

Lynching Beskar may be a good idea in the future. Particularly, if ATPG continues to protest, we'll know we've hit something- because now that it's been revealed Beskar was a cover-up, he's more or less useless and suspicious anyway.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Particularly, if ATPG continues to protest, we'll know we've hit something

?

Your intentions may be good, but if you're attempting to test me, it may be wise not to telegraph your strategy to me, because that renders the results invalid. Reenk Roink didn't tell me he was going to test me.

[Chaotix]

?

Your intentions may be good, but if you're attempting to test me, it may be wise not to telegraph your strategy to me, because that renders the results invalid. Reenk Roink didn't tell me he was going to test me.

Who said it was a test? Maybe we're just going to lynch Beskar because we feel he's suspicious anyway. After all, you've still deigned not to tell us why you trust him so much.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Who said it was a test?

"If Pizzaguy does this, we will know that"

If you tell me this, then if I were mafia with Beskar being my partner, I would simply not protest. You've told me how to manipulate the circumstances, which means it doesn't really reveal any new information.

I trust Beskar as much as I trust you. The difference is, he hasn't been voting for me.

[Reenk Roink]

Next round, if we are on the way to lynching an innocent, I will speak up and say nay nay. Then we will avoid lynching a townie, and unless that situation happens, I don't feel the need to divulge it. Keeps the mafia guessing. The info will be known by any critical round. It certainly wouldn't be prudent to reveal it this round, out of all the options I feel that is the weakest.

This presupposes you live...

This isn't an either/or case. We can still get ATPG's information after he's dead without breaking the rules. If ATPG is murdered, he can still easily prevent us from lynching someone he cleared before he died. He can just say "Lynching XXX would be a very bad idea" or something similar. If he's murdered, he will have been cleared from suspicion as a mafioso and we will thus believe what he says. You saw how effective this type of play was by GH in your own Settlement game. If it worked there, there's no reason it can't work here.

Good enough point if this is allowed under khaan, but if I was a host who didn't allow reveals after death I would not allow Atpg to do this. (in the Settlement I couldn't find a great compromise between what I should allow the dead to do so I gave them basically unrestricted privileges).

Khaan, can you please clarify what and what is not allowed in terms of dead reveals in this game. Is the above type of thing allowed?

Lynching Beskar may be a good idea in the future. Particularly, if ATPG continues to protest, we'll know we've hit something- because now that it's been revealed Beskar was a cover-up, he's more or less useless and suspicious anyway.

I think from what I gathered from my correspondence with Atpg, Beskar has already been investigated. It leaves a round of investigation uncounted for (Reenk at least once, Beskar at least once, Ichigo twice).

You're welcome, though I revealed all of that in my original messages to you; I did speak of the limitation of the ability. White_Eyes posted it, so it is there for all to see.

Yes, but that was to me privately, and though White eyes revealed my PM's all the information was hidden in the mass of text when it could be easily given out in the open. Your reveal seemed piecemeal and selective.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've already revealed all my information to other townies. If I die, the information stays with a living player. I won't have to postmortem reveal.

[Reenk Roink]

I've already revealed all my information to other townies. If I die, the information stays with a living player. I won't have to postmortem reveal.

You said to me you revealed to one other townie (everything too). Now then, I'm really strongly guessing given all the hints and context you've given us, that Beskar was one of your investigations. We have 3 and probably 4 of your investigations counted for. I'm dead, Ichigo you say is Mafia. That leaves at most two townies to give your information to, and you've said you've given full information to one. I already believe it's Beskar too.

Given that the Mafia can kill twice in a round as we've seen, if you are wrong about Ichigo, or his death is meaningless to the amount of kills, than the Mafia can very possibly kill you AND your townie contact on the same night (and if it's Beskar, than it's 2ez).

This system really won't work for long unless khaan allows you to drop obvious hints from the dead as TinCow suggested.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If it were that easy, it should remove a lot of questions as to my guilt or innocence next round. That spares you a lot of contentious debate which will likely lead to a bad lynch. That's less bad news, which is always a good thing.

[TinCow]

Something that is worth noting is that Ichigo has made pretty much no effort to defend himself. Despite his uber-lurker status, he was sufficiently aware of the situation to post this:

It's ATPG and Beskar.

That doesn't much strike me as the response of a townie who was being framed by a fake detective reveal. Those tend to incite that are longer than four words. Under the circumstances, Ichigo's behavior is even stronger evidence against him (and for ATPG) than ATPG's own accusations.

[Reenk Roink]

If it were that easy, it should remove a lot of questions as to my guilt or innocence next round. That spares you a lot of contentious debate which will likely lead to a bad lynch. That's less bad news, which is always a good thing.

No doubt. I am hoping you're offed next round. White eyes would be cherry on the top. With your distractions gone, and Ichigo nailed as at least a killer if not Mafia, I think the town sails to an easy win from now on.

However, I get the feeling that's not going to happen. Either you are Mafia or the Mafia wants us to think so, and I can't decide on which is the better option.

Ergo the lynching you (and White eyes) soon. Getting rid of the distraction ourselves.

TC: Ichigo has generally done the "It's ___________" before for what it's worth.

[seireikhaan]

No circumventing the rules, please.

[Askthepizzaguy]

After checking with the host I confirmed that I cannot suggest any particular player is innocent post-mortem. However, I will still be allowed to participate and offer my opinions on who is scummy.

I'm weighing my options regarding the other investigatee. I'll have to reveal, probably.

[Csargo]

Something that is worth noting is that Ichigo has made pretty much no effort to defend himself. Despite his uber-lurker status, he was sufficiently aware of the situation to post this:



That doesn't much strike me as the response of a townie who was being framed by a fake detective reveal. Those tend to incite that are longer than four words. Under the circumstances, Ichigo's behavior is even stronger evidence against him (and for ATPG) than ATPG's own accusations.

Today is the first time I've been online since the 24th. ATPG is saying I killed YLC last night which is impossible considering I haven't logged on until today. Have a nice day!

[Chaotix]

Something that is worth noting is that Ichigo has made pretty much no effort to defend himself. Despite his uber-lurker status, he was sufficiently aware of the situation to post this:



That doesn't much strike me as the response of a townie who was being framed by a fake detective reveal. Those tend to incite that are longer than four words. Under the circumstances, Ichigo's behavior is even stronger evidence against him (and for ATPG) than ATPG's own accusations.

Then again, knowing the way Ichigo plays lately, that's probably all he would do even if he were innocent, too.

[Beskar]

Today is the first time I've been online since the 24th. ATPG is saying I killed YLC last night which is impossible considering I haven't logged on until today. Have a nice day!

Lets look at this.

Since the Night Phase ended, just today (well, very early today) and you are here. You could have still submitted your order, hence how you are here now to say you didn't do it. Right? So you are here to comment about the night phase, etc.

Also, you say you haven't been on. The phase before, the Mafia for whatever reason, mysteriously did not kill. You weren't around here then, also, didn't vote or anything like that.

Coincidence?

[Chaotix]

There's nothing saying khaan wouldn't accept orders from slightly more active teammates, either. It's certainly not uncommon for a scum-partner to submit orders for his ally if he cannot do it himself.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let's look at this:

Ichigo is either guilty of being mafia or I am guilty of lying. Either way, dead scum.

[TinCow]

Today is the first time I've been online since the 24th. ATPG is saying I killed YLC last night which is impossible considering I haven't logged on until today. Have a nice day!

Yes, I did notice that your post count across the forums dropped suddenly right at the exact same time that this game began. Interesting coincidence.

[TinCow]

I pondered this on the way to work this morning. Despite my previous statements, there's something about this that isn't sitting right with me. Simply put, Ichigo seems like an odd choice for an investigation last night. Of all the people to investigate, he just seems... unlikely. Given the last few days events, would anyone else have picked him? It also conveniently coincides with the first double kill last night, which, combined with ATPG's claim of an 'uncertain' detective ability is almost too good to be true.

I still support Ichigo's lynch here, but I'm beginning to come around to Reenk's thought process on this. Perhaps it would be best to remove ATPG next round just to make sure.

[atheotes]

for what its worth I would have investigated Ichigo... I remember Swords in the moon and how Ichigo completely slipped under the radar...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I pondered this on the way to work this morning. Despite my previous statements, there's something about this that isn't sitting right with me. Simply put, Ichigo seems like an odd choice for an investigation last night. Of all the people to investigate, he just seems... unlikely. Given the last few days events, would anyone else have picked him? It also conveniently coincides with the first double kill last night, which, combined with ATPG's claim of an 'uncertain' detective ability is almost too good to be true.

I still support Ichigo's lynch here, but I'm beginning to come around to Reenk's thought process on this. Perhaps it would be best to remove ATPG next round just to make sure.

I won't protest about the lynch, because I know many will support it in a "covering our butt" move even though I am innocent. However,

Ichigo? Yeah, he is a great investigation. Here is why: I had been telling you guys in-thread that Ichigo was lurking, and gave an excuse for not showing up. This, as you yourself noted, Tincow, was conveniently synchronous with the start of this game. After my protestations, he failed to get a single vote on him besides myself. That means Ichigo has "staying power". He's not voting enough to tick off the mafia, and he's gaining absolutely no suspicion. I investigate him, and he turns out to be innocent, he just became my best bleeping friend. Because I know he's going to live until the end of the game at this rate. Someone else was aware that Ichigo was going to be investigated that night due to a leak in the TIN. That night, there were zero kills. The next night, seeing as how I can't detect a mafia who didn't do anything, I re-investigated him. Guilty this time.

The motives for picking certain people are obvious. Why choose someone who nearly got lynched or is gathering suspicion? They are likely lynched soon. Investigating dead people does us no good, and I wouldn't reveal just to confirm someone's innocence.

Make sure if you must. But it is a wasted lynch, that is all I can say.

[seireikhaan]

Round is over. Seems most likely Ichigo was lynched. Writeup won't be posted for a few hours. I'll take any night orders starting now.