Mafia Mongolica [Concluded]

[TinCow]

It just seems like such a dropped ball to kill two people and not make Atpg one of them... Maybe I'm having Beskar think like me and do what I would do, but I don't really think these are hard to think of scenarios...

It's seem like an irrelevant question, since Beskar has admitted to being the 'detective' as well. Beskar specifically said that he did an investigation and found Ichigo guilty:

I'll like to note, the reason Ichigo was investigated twice was because PizzaGuy and Sigurd both knew about the first one when no kills occurred. PizzaGuy was very adamant not for him to be investigated again, when he was, he was found guilty. Just a note.

(emphasis added)

So, Beskar claims to be the detective and claims to have gotten a guilty result on Ichigo. Ichigo was lynched but the number of kills didn't drop. While there are other explanations for this, the strongest one is that Beskar is lying about being a detective.

[Reenk Roink]

It's seem like an irrelevant question, since Beskar has admitted to being the 'detective' as well. Beskar specifically said that he did an investigation and found Ichigo guilty:

(emphasis added)

So, Beskar claims to be the detective and claims to have gotten a guilty result on Ichigo. Ichigo was lynched but the number of kills didn't drop. While there are other explanations for this, the strongest one is that Beskar is lying about being a detective.

Well that entire theory is based on Beskar claiming detective...

And I frankly believe it lends a lot of support to questioning Beskar's guilt. After all, the entire assumption of 2 Mafia = 2 kills is weak and it seems to be the major reason in Beskar's lynch while other considerations such as potential Mafia actions are being ignored...

Then again, Beskar might just have dropped the ball...

[Tratorix]

So, Beskar claims to be the detective and claims to have gotten a guilty result on Ichigo. Ichigo was lynched but the number of kills didn't drop. While there are other explanations for this, the strongest one is that Beskar is lying about being a detective.

Why did you think the number of kills would drop? Khaan's not exactly known for doing the town any favours in his games. If anything, that makes me believe Beskar more, because if he was mafia he could have dropped the number of kills to make himself look trustworthy. But, it looks like he's this rounds lynch anyway, so .

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's not necessarily a foregone conclusion. We do have people who have escaped attention all game not getting pressured. My vote is available if there's another option.

There's just a few too many dead people who would like to see Beskar join the ranks for me to protest that loudly though. It is their game too.

[Tratorix]

That's not necessarily a foregone conclusion. We do have people who have escaped attention all game not getting pressured. My vote is available if there's another option.

There's just a few too many dead people who would like to see Beskar join the ranks for me to protest that loudly though. It is their game too.

Your last sentence really sums it up. Regardless of Beskar's guilt or innocence this has been coming for a long time. After the whole mess in the first couple of rounds it was pretty much inevitable. The funny thing is, one of the few people advising caution about this lynch is Reenk Roink.

[atheotes]

i would bet the person who killed me is one of the townies from the "cold winter" game... i think it could be Beskar

i am one of those ATPG mentioned

[White_eyes:D]

Reenk, read that whole argument Beskar had against me at the start of this round...

I knew pointing out the whole two kills thing was going to get me in trouble...but it was pointless to keep pretending the possibility didn't exist

I also seemed to guess right about the powering-up kills thing.. No Sane Mafia would miss out on kills....

however, I can't rule out that Beskar or Sigurd cut the number of kills in order to make it seem like town was onto something....(I pulled the same thing in Godfather 3)

But me and Beefy were under hardly any pressure till the end It's really hard to say on how Beskar and Sigurd would act being under so much pressure

If I am right and Sigurd and Beskar are mafia....I am going to tell you guys how I found it...It could very well eliminate, Lurker mafia victories once and for all, unless they do some REALLY drastic stuff

And yes, I did make something like a "Watson/Skynet" but I didn't really use it. I can't fully trust everything it comes up with as I have not tested it in many games I mostly made it to counter lurker mafia's (Too many of those lately)

[TinCow]

Why did you think the number of kills would drop? Khaan's not exactly known for doing the town any favours in his games. If anything, that makes me believe Beskar more, because if he was mafia he could have dropped the number of kills to make himself look trustworthy. But, it looks like he's this rounds lynch anyway, so .

I played in the last two 'khaan large games before this one (Netherworld and Chicago) and in both of those it was 1 kill per mafioso. That is also the 'standard' format for mafia games on this forum. I have seen no indications so far that this game varies from the standard in that regard. The 'twist' seems likely to have been YLC's role, and he's already dead. Thus, when weighing the evidence, I think it's more likely that this is just another 1 kill per mafioso game, like 'khaans previous ones.

[Tratorix]

I played in the last two 'khaan large games before this one (Netherworld and Chicago) and in both of those it was 1 kill per mafioso. That is also the 'standard' format for mafia games on this forum. I have seen no indications so far that this game varies from the standard in that regard. The 'twist' seems likely to have been YLC's role, and he's already dead. Thus, when weighing the evidence, I think it's more likely that this is just another 1 kill per mafioso game, like 'khaans previous ones.

Really? I could have sworn Netherworld had a set number of kills, but I'm probably wrong.
I look forward to hearing Beskar's answer on this topic.

[TinCow]

Really? I could have sworn Netherworld had a set number of kills, but I'm probably wrong.

Netherworld was definitely 1 kill per mafioso... since I was one of them.

That said, looking back at Chicago, I can't find any info to substantiate my statement regarding that game. None of the posts I've read indicate whether it was 1 per mafioso or 2 for the whole team and the failure of the town to kill either of them prevents any deduction from the rate of kills. For some reason I thought it was 1 per mafioso, but I can't figure out why I thought that now.

[Beskar]

So, Beskar claims to be the detective and claims to have gotten a guilty result on Ichigo. Ichigo was lynched but the number of kills didn't drop. While there are other explanations for this, the strongest one is that Beskar is lying about being a detective.

Yes, the strongest one is that I am lying if you don't actually know what has occured, I entirely agree, however, Ichigo was Mafia and that is a fact. You are also missing that there was only one kill in the beginning as well, your own 1 kill 1 mafia theory falls apart there. Why was only one of the Mafia killing in your theory? doesn't it make more sense for them to kill?

What is probably closer is that Khaan made it so the Mafia could only have one kill, which either one could do or only one with the ability to kill, then during the no kill stage, as White_Eyes:D suggests, they now had the ability to do two kills. Remember the tails of the comet and they were two? Some people suggested it meant two Mafia, but it was probably meaning "there are now two kills" as after it, two kills occurred each night.

You can lynch me, but I didn't lie and I obviously been set-up by Pizza Guy, because if I was Mafia, wouldn't I just killed him in order to keep the secret sealed? It makes no sense for him still to live.

[A Very Super Market]

Easy. Lynch him next day. :D

Also, lynch the lurkers at the same time. Oh wait....

[Askthepizzaguy]

I agree with everything but the "pizzaguy is mafia" part. Again, you're totally ignoring the fact that I could have warned Ichigo not to kill, or that I could have killed you, or what the heck I was doing not killing on round one or two, or any of the other gaping holes in that theory.



Simply repeating it over and over doesn't make it so.

[Beskar]

It would lend credibility to the story that Atpg was detective (so by implication Beskar was detective) and avoid Atpg being able to DIRECTLY spill the beans. Yes there would be AVSM to worry about, but given his play, I wouldn't really be inclined to believe him immediately, like I would Atpg who has direct contact.

Or why wouldn't the Mafia (if Beskar is Mafia) kill just one to avoid this situation in the first place.

It just seems like such a dropped ball to kill two people and not make Atpg one of them... Maybe I'm having Beskar think like me and do what I would do, but I don't really think these are hard to think of scenarios...

You are missing another fact, Pizza Guy told me that he told AVSM, all I had to do if I was Mafia was kill them both and it would never have got out. Unfortunately, it is a catch-22 where I can't kill, thus it comes out. I think this is more likely a set-up, at first I thought it was White_Eyes:D setting up ATPG, but it looks like ATPG really pulled the rug out under me, because he wanted to avoid getting lynched.

FOS: AskthePIzzaGuy

You have to remember, I wasn't in the firing line, ATPG was. He is known for his diamonds and he just did it again and again, the town falls for it.

[Beskar]

I agree with everything but the "pizzaguy is mafia" part. Again, you're totally ignoring the fact that I could have warned Ichigo not to kill, or that I could have killed you, or what the heck I was doing not killing on round one or two, or any of the other gaping holes in that theory.

What is probably closer is that Khaan made it so the Mafia could only have one kill, which either one could do or only one with the ability to kill, then during the no kill stage, as White_Eyes:D suggests, they now had the ability to do two kills. Remember the tails of the comet and they were two? Some people suggested it meant two Mafia, but it was probably meaning "there are now two kills" as after it, two kills occurred each night.

There, blame 'Khaan/Mafia, stop poking your grubby finger at me. The whole thing is nothing to do with me, but since I am incapable of answering as I don't know, then trying to use my lack of knowledge of Mafia against me, maybe you should tell everyone why you are the resident expert and happen to know all the processes of the Mafia.

[Beskar]

Twists? Perhaps.

Yeah, your awful kill system and not revealing Mafia as Mafia.

[Caius]

I'm dropping out of the game. I'm sorry, I don't know what is going on.

[Reenk Roink]

You have to remember, I wasn't in the firing line, ATPG was. He is known for his diamonds and he just did it again and again, the town falls for it.

Atpg is pretty screwed due to all the dirt on him as well, he's been caught badly. You just happen to look more dirty.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm the cleanest one here.

[Beskar]

Atpg is pretty screwed due to all the dirt on him as well, he's been caught badly. You just happen to look more dirty.

I don't, since I never did any of the kills I been accused of and there is not Beskar-ATPG/Beskar-Sigurd connection and since Ichigo was actually a Mafia. There has not been a single accusation of me which has been correct.

I haven't acted "scummy" at all, since I am accused of acting "scummy" every single game where I am shown to be a town. Calling me scummy holds as much water as a bucket with no bottom on. The fact either as Mafia or Town, I play as if I am a town, it is actually impossible to know outside of pro-town roles or if I am some one else's team mate what team I am on. Unfortunately, people just lynch me regardless, even though I never had been Mafia, and every time, I am town.

[Jolt]

I believe Beskar. Lynch ATPG as I said.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe Beskar. Lynch ATPG as I said.

I'll remember you said that. I'm keeping score.

[Jolt]

We're still not in Capo. In Capo, I'll defend you even if : A roleblocker successfully blocks you in a night without kills, then in the next night you attempt to kill another person, and that person is saved by a doctor while you were being investigated by 5 different groups that night which all saw you do the kill.

In this game, you're as guilty as they come.

EDIT: Though I'm finding it curious that, in the list of games we played together, you more or less accepted your own lynch or accusations of being scummy, without much fuss. Now in this game, you're quite the trigger-happy fellow, which is quite curious.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In this game, you're as guilty as they come.

If you say so. In the meantime, here's a tally.


Beskar- 7 (Gibsons, WE, AVSM, pevergreen, Sigurd, DIY, Khazaar)
ATPG- 2 (Beskar, Tratorix)
Tratorix- 2 (ATPG, DJGingivitis)

I know this much, Jolt: due to my reveal of Ichigo, and subsequent reveal of Beskar, the mafia died. So if I am mafia, I still gave you a present. I'll see you next round, where you can lynch me nice and dead.

edit: please double check my tally. There's been a lot of posts and it's hard to find people's votes sometimes.

[Jolt]

Did Beskar confirm here in the thread that he investigated you and found you innocent?

Though I wonder this much, if Beskar is really Mafia, he could easily have killed you after you revealed yourself as innocent.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did Beskar confirm here in the thread that he investigated you and found you innocent?

Indeed he did. give me a moment and I'll link his post here for you. BRB.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=678

This is where he is arguing that I am scum even though he investigated me on what was it, the first or second night. I was not killing that night, his words.

[Beskar]

Proof that Ask the Pizza Guy is Mafia -

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Askthepizzaguy]

You want to know the real proof that I am mafia? I'm still alive.

[Beskar]

I mean, when GeneralHankerchief got killed, I was blamed, even though I didn't do it, however, when two people against you get killed, some how I get bandwagoned.

Good Game my Pizza Friend.

[Reenk Roink]

I mean, when GeneralHankerchief got killed, I was blamed, even though I didn't do it, however, when two people against you get killed, some how I get bandwagoned.

Good Game my Pizza Friend.

I'll say what I said earlier.

This is because, as bad as Atpg is doing in deflecting suspicion from himself, you are doing even worse. Atpg has been caught with his pants down, you've been caught with your underwear down...

Think about it, my defense of you is because your play was too detrimental to yourself as Mafia...