A Question to Christians

[Lemur]

Without free will we are completely and utterly worthless, in every sense, we are reduced to machines performing a pre-set function.

Such a conception of hummanity is not compatable with Christianity.

Not to be overly pedantic, but free will versus predestination is not a settled matter that all Christian faiths aree upon.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not to be overly pedantic, but free will versus predestination is not a settled matter that all Christian faiths aree upon.

I'm well aware of that, but I have yet to encounter a theory of predestination which does not contradict the conception of God as "Universal Father".

Edit: Amd here's Rhy to prove both our points.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Edit: Amd here's Rhy to prove both our points.

Yo. Anyway, I didn't come to start the Rhy v PVC show again (my name goes first btw), I made a bigger post just before yours which doesn't go into the predestination stuff (just making sure you know its there, sometimes I miss posts made a minute before I post mine).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yo. Anyway, I didn't come to start the Rhy v PVC show again (my name goes first btw), I made a bigger post just before yours which doesn't go into the predestination stuff (just making sure you know its there, sometimes I miss posts made a minute before I post mine).

Yeah I read it, and it's full of predestination and subversion of free will.

Also, my name goes first, I have more facial hair, and a BA.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yeah I read it, and it's full of predestination and subversion of free will.

Also, my name goes first, I have more facial hair, and a BA.

And that's the way it should be, honest and God-centred!

Also does BA stand for Batchelor of Arts? So you've completed Uni?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And that's the way it should be, honest and God-centred!

Also does BA stand for Batchelor of Arts? So you've completed Uni?

I forbid you from using the operator "should", there is no should in a deistically deterministic universe because "should" and "is" are both defined by God.

Unless, of course, the universe has a random element which operates without divine direction.

Oh, and yes, I have my BA. Once I finish this Thesis you will have refer to me as "Master"

[Rhyfelwyr]

I forbid you from using the operator "should", there is no should in a deistically deterministic universe because "should" and "is" are both defined by God.

Unless, of course, the universe has a random element which operates without divine direction.

Oh, and yes, I have my BA. Once I finish this Thesis you will have refer to me as "Master"

There's nothing wrong with saying "should". Adam had free will before the fall and his actions are representative of the nature of all humanity... being created innocent by God and in communion with Him, humanity as a whole should, from the view of a morally-perfect agent, act according to God's perfect ways. Unless ye be a supralapsarian of course, but my branch of Calvinists never went for that.

Anyway, in my main post you didn't have to take it as being deterministic. On the wider scale looking at humanity in general, God could have brought about all those things I stated through a general 'moral appeal' to individuals to act in a certain manner, which would be no more deterministic or infringe any more on their free will than any other factor which influences the decisions we take would. This would be the position of most Christians I would think, Catholics believe in a dual role between God and the individual when it comes to salvation and making moral choices. You are an Arminian extremist!

Oh and... congratulations on getting your BA, I'm pretty sure you were still studying last time I asked you about it... what's your Thesis on?

[Megas Methuselah]

@OP:

Who are we to understand God? Also, it's probably important to note that, as many already said, death isn't exactly a bad thing from most Christian perspectives.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Not to be overly pedantic, but free will versus predestination is not a settled matter that all Christian faiths aree upon.

Thank you!

Have a ballon!

Partly for what you said, partly as a bribe for my double post...