Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
I forbid you from using the operator "should", there is no should in a deistically deterministic universe because "should" and "is" are both defined by God.

Unless, of course, the universe has a random element which operates without divine direction.

Oh, and yes, I have my BA. Once I finish this Thesis you will have refer to me as "Master"
There's nothing wrong with saying "should". Adam had free will before the fall and his actions are representative of the nature of all humanity... being created innocent by God and in communion with Him, humanity as a whole should, from the view of a morally-perfect agent, act according to God's perfect ways. Unless ye be a supralapsarian of course, but my branch of Calvinists never went for that.

Anyway, in my main post you didn't have to take it as being deterministic. On the wider scale looking at humanity in general, God could have brought about all those things I stated through a general 'moral appeal' to individuals to act in a certain manner, which would be no more deterministic or infringe any more on their free will than any other factor which influences the decisions we take would. This would be the position of most Christians I would think, Catholics believe in a dual role between God and the individual when it comes to salvation and making moral choices. You are an Arminian extremist!

Oh and... congratulations on getting your BA, I'm pretty sure you were still studying last time I asked you about it... what's your Thesis on?