Leathality vs attack trade off

[godsakes]

If I understand the mathematics (and Puzz3D is right):
Increasing your lethality from 0.13 to 0.225, increases the chances of your hit being a kill by 96%.

is it that much?

i though it'd be (0.225-0.13)/0.13 = 73% or did you apply something from Puzz3D's formula (i couldn't really get my head around it)

assuming you're right, you'd need around 19 attack before things balanced out?

[econ21]

is it that much?

i though it'd be (0.225-0.13)/0.13 = 73%

You are quite right, tx - I have corrected my mistake.

assuming you're right, you'd need around 19 attack before things balanced out?

With your correction, you would need +7.

[antisocialmunky]

There is also attack speed which increases the amount of rolls you get and knockdowns.

[godsakes]

There is also attack speed which increases the amount of rolls you get and knockdowns.

attack speed? there's a seperate stat for that?

from reading the link in the first reply i got the impression the attack essentially represents that, all the units go through a battle cycle the units with higher attack (say quicker shortswords), hit more often then say slower double handed swords (represented by the lower attack) but this is offset by the fact the double handed swords are more likely to do more damage (read: kill) represented by the higher leathality

[Labrat]

from reading the link in the first reply i got the impression the attack essentially represents that, all the units go through a battle cycle the units with higher attack (say quicker shortswords), hit more often then say slower double handed swords (represented by the lower attack) but this is offset by the fact the double handed swords are more likely to do more damage (read: kill) represented by the higher leathality

Almost right. Attack speed determines how often a soldier will make strikes (IIRC the animation also plays a role in this). Strikes can be delayed by the soldier being hit, kocked-down or pushed. When the soldier strikes, his attack value is compared to the defence value of his target. A higher attack value and / or lower defence value increase the chance of a hit. Finally, the lethality value is the chance that a hit translates into a kill, if not the defender is simply knocked-down and can't strike or move for a second or two.

Increasing your attack by 2, increases your chance of a hit by about 20%.

Wouldn't a +2 attack improve hit-chance with 1.2^2 = 1.44 = 44%?

My above post was wrong, BTW: the greater the discrepancy between attack and defence, the greater the effect of an additional point of attack gets. The difference was capped at 20 in M:TW, but Puzz3D says the cap is far higher in R:TW.

[econ21]

Wouldn't a +2 attack improve hit-chance with 1.2^2 = 1.44 = 44%?

If I am understanding things right, yes, in STW and MTW. But the link in this thread to Puzz3D's post suggests the 1.2 constant was lowered to 1.1 in RTW.

[Labrat]

If I am understanding things right, yes, in STW and MTW. But the link in this thread to Puzz3D's post suggests the 1.2 constant was lowered to 1.1 in RTW.

-2 for my reading comprehension. I need some caffeine, apparently.

[CBR]

Yes the test we did showed RTW more or less halved the effect so its about 1.1.

Not sure if lethality is linear. But the best approach is to ensure that all weapons have the correct lethality so equal attack/defense also means equal melee strength (except for spears of course). AFAIK the AI does not consider lethality but only the attack/defense points as well if a unit is a spear v non spear unit.


CBR

[econ21]

There is also attack speed which increases the amount of rolls you get and knockdowns.

By attack speed do you mean "Min delay between attacks (in 1/10th of a second)" - i.e. the number before lethality in the EDU? I had assumed longswords would be slower, but both swords seem to have 0 for this stat.

Maybe the animations play a role here?

[bobbin]

By attack speed do you mean "Min delay between attacks (in 1/10th of a second)" - i.e. the number before lethality in the EDU? I had assumed longswords would be slower, but both swords seem to have 0 for this stat.

Maybe the animations play a role here?

Attack speed is only used for cavalry spears and ranged weapons in EB (all others are set to 0) and so isn't a factor.

From what I've heard model animations do affect a units combat performance.

[antisocialmunky]

The only notable example I can think of are that Phalangites have the rapid poke that does alot of pushback/knockback