controlling Phalanx

[godsakes]

i think phalanxes are one thing the AI might do a better job of controlling than me

i find whenever i tell a phalanx to attack they often

a) break their phalanx formation
b) face the wrong way, completely exposing their flank

in the case of a) i tend to tell them to cancel when they're at least facing their opponent which causes them to reform the phalanx however while this works to a degree they're not really pushing into the enemy. in the case of b) i have to tell them to break their phalanx and reform

there must be a better way, please enlighten me people

[Alsatia]

That pisses me off alot. The only way to proplerly keep the formation is to right click and hold, but that leaves the phalangites vulnerble for a few seconds. That's why I now try to avoid them unless sieges or where i'm facing any hellen.

The phalanx was very unweldy, even in ancient times.

[Conqueror]

Why would you want them to be pushing into the enemy? The purpose of a phalanx (talking about the pikemen here, not hoplitai) is not to kill and it's not to ram into enemy ranks. It is simply to pin them; to keep them engaged frontally so that you can flank them with your mobile infantry and smash your cavalry to their back.

Just keep all your phalangites as a solid line in the center/front of your army and set them on defensive mode. Then use your missile units to provoke the enemy infantry into attacking. Your phalangites shouldn't need to be given any orders, they should be able to stand their ground on their own. So long as you can overcome your enemy on the flanks with your other units, you should have enough time to set up a double envelopement or hammer & anvil.

Here's a quick ASCII diagram showing a basic formation for a well balanced combined arms army:

P = phalangites
I = infantry
M = missile
S = skirmishers
C = cavalry

         (enemy)

    S       S      S
I I P P P P P P P P I I
C   M       M      M  C

[godsakes]

Why would you want them to be pushing into the enemy? The purpose of a phalanx (talking about the pikemen here, not hoplitai) is not to kill and it's not to ram into enemy ranks. It is simply to pin them; to keep them engaged frontally so that you can flank them with your mobile infantry and smash your cavalry to their back.

Just keep all your phalangites as a solid line in the center/front of your army and set them on defensive mode. Then use your missile units to provoke the enemy infantry into attacking. Your phalangites shouldn't need to be given any orders, they should be able to stand their ground on their own. So long as you can overcome your enemy on the flanks with your other units, you should have enough time to set up a double envelopement or hammer & anvil.

Here's a quick ASCII diagram showing a basic formation for a well balanced combined arms army:

P = phalangites
I = infantry
M = missile
S = skirmishers
C = cavalry

         (enemy)

    S       S      S
I I P P P P P P P P I I
C   M       M      M  C

yes i get that idea, all very well when the enemy engages you head on but if you're engaged at an angle and only part of your wall is doing a job, it's hardly unresonable to try to them for the envelopement (given how few infantry you have in your setup, you'd have to move over phalangites for part of an envelopement.

i can't be the only to have noticed the AI often uses it's phalangites to push your troops, very effective too when it traps more of your infantry into it's killing zone and buckling your lines

also in cities/town when you want to push the enemy into the streets , so there's no opportunity for them flank you.

[Belisarius II]

I've also encountered the AI using its phalangites as rams. It's a really pain when they break apart a section of my phalanx. I usually get heavy cavalry to smash into the back of these ramming phalanxes.

As for reforming the 'rammed' phalanxes I do the same as Alsatia does, but I haven't tried but I think I heard that instead of holding and moving the cursor you'd be able to hold the shift key.

[fleaza]

the trick is not to make your phalanx attack but to order them to move behind the enemy. the phalanx will automatically stop and attack the enemy when they encounter them. be careful when using this technique because the rest of the line will keep moving forward, you have to stop them manually. this technique is very useful because you can just order your line to move forward while you manouevre your cavalry and hypapistai/hoplitai.

[Ibrahim]

i think phalanxes are one thing the AI might do a better job of controlling than me

i find whenever i tell a phalanx to attack they often

a) break their phalanx formation
b) face the wrong way, completely exposing their flank

in the case of a) i tend to tell them to cancel when they're at least facing their opponent which causes them to reform the phalanx however while this works to a degree they're not really pushing into the enemy. in the case of b) i have to tell them to break their phalanx and reform

there must be a better way, please enlighten me people

firstly don't tell a phalanx to attack-tell an entire line to advance forward*. and so that they attack whoever is in the way, take guard mode off, and if the opposition is a phalanx, hit it, then switch guard mode on. and don;t use phalanxes in broken terrain-and if there is, avoid it like the plague. and each regimetn ought to be deployed in deep ranks, for punch.

*to get them to keep formation, group the phalanxes into a line, ungroup, then regroup.

[dake]

I think using phalanx is alot of micromanage to put them into right positions and not moving them to much around when engaging the enemy army. This makes them as i feel vunerable and it feels like an out of date fighting style. Its very easy to defeat hellenic armies with phalanxes with versatile units like light cavalry and missle/skirmisher units.

I think for using a army with phalanxes successful it all depends how you use you rear units to force the enemy into the center getting smashed by the long phalanx pikes.

[Skullheadhq]

I think using phalanx is alot of micromanage to put them into right positions and not moving them to much around when engaging the enemy army. This makes them as i feel vunerable and it feels like an out of date fighting style. Its very easy to defeat hellenic armies with phalanxes with versatile units like light cavalry and missle/skirmisher units.

I think for using a army with phalanxes successful it all depends how you use you rear units to force the enemy into the center getting smashed by the long phalanx pikes.

Just stand still and wait for them to come to you

[dake]

Just stand still and wait for them to come to you

True but that is no fun at all.

[Cute Wolf]

True but that is no fun at all.

The funny thing is how to bait them to slam themself on your spearwall...