Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I was waiting for something like this. PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE YOU VOTE ME BLINDLY.

First of all, yes, everything Kommodus says is true. Let me concentrate on his two main points of attack: First of all, that my not going after himself or Kage attests to my guilt, and that he has concrete evidence that I am in fact a mafioso.

I assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me. Maybe ATPG is a Made. But here is his explanation for it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your explanation is a bit muddled for my liking in order for me to answer properly. From what you've told me, I'm not sure I see the difference between getting in on a vig hit tonight and acting as a town's hitman of sorts (?) sometime in the future.

From your perspective, there would be no real difference. I would have to double check with the host, but I believe that I would be in effect acting as the other people in your group necessary to form a vigilante kill. I don't believe it would affect your alignment either. I'd just end up being the rest of your team, so to speak. And pardon the muddled explanation, I'm afraid I'm not at full liberty to discuss. Best I can say is that these players are a headache for the entire town and duly deserve to be put to death.

At any point in time you could say that you don't want to do it anymore, and you can walk away, you're not obligated to continue associating with me, and you can take whatever path you like, it is none of my concern. Feel free to ask me questions, just understand my hands are tied when it comes to giving you certain answers.

You can also tell me "no" right here and now, and it wouldn't bother me. I'd just have to keep looking for another skilled player. I'm also a bit too concerned with this important work to bother you about being a wiseguy. Trust me, you are the least of my concerns. I'd appreciate it if you didn't mention this conversation to anyone, as it causes me less headaches, and yourself as well.

Sorry, one more question and then I'll give you my answer.

- Does you not being at liberty to discuss certain things with me come from red text?

Indeed. I couldn't reveal it, even though I want to.

Secondly, I did not out-and-out accuse Kommodus and/or Kage because I didn't want to. What good what that have done? "No, it wasn't me". Case closed. I prefer to work in more subtle ways. I asked a contact of mine to investigate Kage last night. I'm still waiting to hear back. I was working this mystery out in my own private way.

I am not a mafioso. Do not lynch me for using my own methods to sort things out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I vouch for what GeneralHankerchief said. I approached him for the Yaropolk kill. I brought this up with Kommodus; I believe GH is useful to us.

Only point is that I am not a made. I specifically told GH this wasn't a recruiting mission for any mafia family, but more of an actual vigilante-type pro-town maneuver which relates to my role. I might be able to do things you can't do, if you take my meaning.

The main choices this round are between the other part of the Russian group, or the person who helped take them down, or both. I've done what I can, you must decide, or leave it up to the esteemed Reenkster.

[Andres]

assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me.

Two and the kill succeeded? At least one of you is a Made and the other one has to be either a Wiseguy or a Luca. Red text is too convenient an excuse.

I'm more suspicious about ATPG, but I think both of you should die.

Unvote : GH; Vote Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Two and the kill succeeded? At least one of you is a Made and the other one has to be either a Wiseguy or a Luca.

That's not correct. It doesn't even make sense why GH and I would voluntarily expose ourselves just to take down CountArach if we were both mafia. There are more roles than meet the eye, Andres.

You can believe what you will, but it is not so simple.

Red text is too convenient an excuse.

On the contrary, it's decidedly inconvenient at the moment. It would go a long way to adding to the credibility if I had something to show.

[TinCow]

I assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me.

Your proof of not being a mafioso is that you killed someone in a group of two?

[Andres]

That's not correct. It doesn't even make sense why GH and I would voluntarily expose ourselves just to take down CountArach if we were both mafia. There are more roles than meet the eye, Andres.

You can believe what you will, but it is not so simple.

Blahblahblah.

Usually, the most simple explanation is the right one.

Two guys target somebody -> kill succeeds.

Possible explanations:
1) made+wiseguy can kill;
2) made+luca can kill;
3) some red text which can, conveniently, not be quoted, explains it all.

1) or 2) -> GH and/or ATPG are guilty
3) GH and ATPG are innocent.

I'm more inclined to believe the most obvious explanations 1) and 2).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Your proof of not being a mafioso is that you killed someone in a group of two?

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

[Andres]

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

What's your role?

[TinCow]

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

You've been implying you know someone who can investigate. It's perfectly understandable that you wouldn't give out this person's name, but there's far less harm in discussing this person without giving a name.

1) What kind of investigation role does this person have?
2) How do you know about him/her?

[GeneralHankerchief]

My role is Wiseguy. Given the current mortality rate of my kind, I should probably say "townie" but I am what I am.

As for TC's questions:

1. Detective
2. Grapevine.

[Andres]

GeneralHankerchief:

1) you made a succesful kill with only two persons participating;
2) there's a guilty result on you (apparently? I probably missed it somewhere in this monster thread);
3) you behaved suspicious behind the scenes (Kommodus pm's);

You'll have to come with some very decent explanation to avoid getting lynched

Please, what's your role and post your night action results.

EDIT: ok, Wiseguy. No point in asking your role, the Wiseguy role pm has already been posted in thread by FH. Now, posting your night action results shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Already said I was a Wiseguy.

As far as results PMs:

Protection effort failed; orders not coordinated

[explanation from Seamus to Kommodus about why he was late here]

This was N1. Its subject was "N1 results" and sent to myself, Kommo, and Kage.

Sucessful, Yaropolk died. Kill credit as appropriate.

Subject: "n2 murder", sent to myself and ATPG.

For the record, here was our orders PM to Seamus:

Askthepizzaguy and I will be using his "special kill" against Yaropolk.

Whatever this is, ATPG, I hope you know what you're doing...

Greetings Seamus,

I've elected to use the kill against Yaropolk, assisted by GeneralHankerchief, countermanding my previous orders, please. Thank you! Any problems with this selection please let me know.

[TinCow]

Worth noting that it is very obvious that someone lied about submitting orders to protect TS on Night 1. GH, Kommodus, and Kagemusha all submitted orders to protect him. TS died. All three players claim they properly submitted orders. On Night 2, I can personally verify what Kommodus and Kage were doing. GH has admitted to killing on Night 2.

Anyone want to take a guess who was lying about Night 1?

[Andres]

[explanation from Seamus to Kommodus about why he was late here]

Explain, please.

[GeneralHankerchief]

It was personal and it was why Seamus was late with his results.

Anyway, I've revealed everything I need to reveal. Make out of it what you will, but I sincerely mean the town no harm.

[TinCow]

It was personal and it was why Seamus was late with his results.

Anyway, I've revealed everything I need to reveal. Make out of it what you will, but I sincerely mean the town no harm.

Uhmm... that's the results PM Kommodus showed me. He accidentally CCed it to you with the auto-reply text box. Strange that you seem to have noted that by specifically reporting that it was an excuse from Seamus to Kommodus.

You never showed me a results PM from Night 1, only Kommodus did.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally (based off of glyphz' tally)

GeneralHankerchief: 11 - Kommodus, Tratorix, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, TinCow, atheotes, Chaotix, ricera10, Gaius Scribonius Curio, Psychonaut, YLC, Beefy

CountArach: 10 - Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, White_eyes:D, Craterus, Sasaki Kojiro, El Diablo, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Double A, Jolt

woad&fangs: 4 - Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Sigurd, LittleGrizzly

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, slashandburn

shlin28: 1 Crazed Rabbit

A Very Super Market: 1 Myrddraal

Beefy: 1 Lord Winter

Askthepizzaguy: 1 Andres

Abstain: AVSM


for those of you keeping score, Reenk has infinity billion votes for him to be re-selected as the Director.

[GeneralHankerchief]

TC, that was the same PM I received. Kage will verify it as well when he gets on.

-edit- As will Kommodus, since he'll see that it was sent to the three of us.

[Andres]

It seems like ATPG won't be lynched today. GH is a better option than CA (who still has some things to explain ).

Unvote : ATPG; Vote : GH

[Joe Monks]

Blahblahblah.

Usually, the most simple explanation is the right one.

Two guys target somebody -> kill succeeds.

Possible explanations:
1) made+wiseguy can kill;
2) made+luca can kill;
3) some red text which can, conveniently, not be quoted, explains it all.

In the second capo two guys killing was a family sanctioned hit. If it wasn't family sanctioned
like a made + say two unaffiliated wiseguys was necessary.

Since there was no family rose left at the scene at yarapolk maybe there is some red text that can explain how two guys can kill. I cant remember if a family could choose to not leave a rose at the scene.

Now ATPG knowledge that factionheir was a mafioso is starting to look fishy.

On the other hand remember those crusader dudes who ended up getting lycnched last time.
Its possible that there is some other iteration of that kind of role this time.

1) or 2) -> GH and/or ATPG are guilty
3) GH and ATPG are innocent.

I'm more inclined to believe the most obvious explanations 1) and 2).

FOS: ATPG, GH, SASAKI, CA

I will vote later.

Joe

[DisgruntledGoat]

If those PM's are to be believed its clear that ATPG was the originator of the N2 kill actions, he has even confirmed that to be the case in this thread. But at the same time ATPG has put himself out there and under so much scrutiny in this game it doesn't seem like something a mafioso would do. Then again ATPG is always one to play a bold game. Obviously GH has a history here as being a good player, something that I am not too knowledgeable, as people seem very very very ready jump on the bandwagon to lynch him.

Tincow, you seem very very ready to back up Kommodus and Kage with little evidence to support them. THere is just as much evidence behind Kommodus' case as there is to prove GH is innocent. For someone thats looking at this with fresh eyes (just saw this stuff a few minutes ago) its hard to pick a side. It seems that it would be just as easy for someone to say that Kage and Kommodus are setting up GH for an easy lynch. And the evidence can be manipulated to show that just as easily. So I'm more weary of ATPG than GH, and I am certainly not ready to lynch GH in a bandwagon.

CA seemed a good, safe choice up until this whole mess got under way. I'll stick with him for now. If something more can be revealed regarding ATPG and GH then I may have to change my vote.

[naut]

Unvote : GH; Vote CountArach

[DisgruntledGoat]

Might want to actually vote.... doh

Vote: CountArach

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now ATPG knowledge that factionheir was a mafioso is starting to look fishy.

I assume most people know by now, the knowledge came from the mafioso (or previous iteration thereof) himself, and it was spread to several people, including those in this game whose roles I oppose, and got killed off. If they can verify they got their information the same way, it's not exactly fish-scented. There was a scene and it was unpleasant, but the bottom line is, it probably wouldn't have happened if the info on FH was incorrect.

On the other hand remember those crusader dudes who ended up getting lycnched last time.
Its possible that there is some other iteration of that kind of role this time.

Cuba is lovely this time of year.




Tally

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CountArach: 12 - Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, White_eyes:D, Craterus, Sasaki Kojiro, El Diablo, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Double A, Jolt, Psychonaut, DisgruntledGoat

GeneralHankerchief: 11 - Kommodus, Tratorix, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, TinCow, atheotes, Chaotix, ricera10, Gaius Scribonius Curio, YLC, Beefy, Andres

woad&fangs: 4 - Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Sigurd, LittleGrizzly

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, slashandburn

shlin28: 1 Crazed Rabbit

A Very Super Market: 1 Myrddraal

Beefy: 1 Lord Winter

Abstain: AVSM

[Kagemusha]

I can verify what Kommodus and Tincow have been saying. N1´s protection of Stranger went sour and now GH is trying to create an alibi out of killing someone N2. To me this is way too rich to believe.
Also GH. I would like to hear what the investigation result for me was?

[Joe Monks]

Ok lets say I trust you partially for now.

In that case I don't think its fair to lynch GH since he has worked with you. If you are a made that info will come
out and you will get lynched anyway.

Therefore VOTE:Count Arach

Joe

[naut]

high-paying immigrants from Communist East Europe to staff our casinos in Vegas and brothels

From the prologue. Relates to CountArach and Yaropolk, no doubt.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your result was unclear, by the by.

I didn't personally perform it but I trust the source very much.

Well then i would suggest that you post that in public.

As you wish; you weren't in any danger and I had already informed GH of the findings. I personally thought you might want your own results kept secret.

Too much public info allows the families to better manipulate the circumstances. I'd opt not to post it, unless you insisted that is what you want.

I would prefer you would post it openly in the thread.

On Kagemusha's request, his results were unclear. I do trust the source very much, for what it is worth.

[Moros]

Okay just a small question but can anyone give me a good reason why pevergreen had to be attacked? I bloody hope he's secretly mafia. Glad I never trusted it and had nothing to do with it.

Also Andres why were you talking about keeping Sasaki in check by the using him in protection squads, if you don't go trough with it? If I didn't read the pm in time, and our protection target was chose, I could have died. Gah!

Another question, why had Yaropolk to be killed? Was there some decent information of him being mafia? If not then why?

Personally I don't trust ATPG at all. But I'd want Andres reasoning for joining in with the idiocy organised by the_stranger & co. Really wtf?

vote: Andres

[Kagemusha]

On Kagemusha's request, his results were unclear. I do trust the source very much, for what it is worth.

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

FBI Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. Results, which parallel those of the regular detective but tend to be more accurate given the FBI’s greater resources, are delayed in comparison to a normal detective because of the need to interact with FBI bureaucracy. May not participate in any murders and always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Made Gangster:

A Made is one of the two initial “Made” gangsters in a crime family. Their objective is to lead up the “wet-work” efforts on behalf of their crime family, eventually controlling the town. If investigated by a Detective or another Made, a Made gangster appears “criminal.” If investigated by a Detective during a “night” phase in which the made gangster is actively involved in a killing, they appear “guilty.” In addition, a Made gangster can conduct one “recruiting” investigation per “night” phase. This investigation will determine if the individual is “criminal,” “innocent,” or “unclear.” The initial made gangster of a family is automatically aware of the identity of the family Don.


The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.