do you think prostitution should be legal?

[Prussian to the Iron]

this is mainly aimed toward people in countries where prostitution is currently illegal (mainly united states). debate.

I think it should be legal. if someone wants to use a paycheck and get a night of enjoyment when they would otherwise be doing nothing, than why is it the governments business? prostitution is a perfectly legitimate way to make money (albeit, almost impossible for guys to do), and hindering it only violates basic human (and legal) rights to work doing whatever they want, so long as it does not harm anyone else.

Pimping, on the other hand, is very horrible. the fact that they try to own and control other human beings is very immoral and should not be allowed.

[Rhyfelwyr]

They don't need pimps to control them, the vast majority of people who work in the oldest profession are only there because of drug habits which are beyond their control.

Granted, if it was legal if might make it a bit safer for the workers in terms of not getting murdered by psychopaths/whatever, but it would also allow it to become much more widespread.

[Prussian to the Iron]

i know that they do not need pimps to control them, im just saying i think pimping should be illegal.

and letting it become widespread is a good thing.

[Don Corleone]

I used ot agree with you when I was younger, Prussian Iron. Victimless crime and all that.

Then as you get older, you come to realize that flesh peddling comes at a steep cost. The pornography industry is perfectly legal here in the US, and it seems like every day brings a new horror story.

AIDS, drugs, suicide, low self esteem.... for every actress that appears on television to say how liberating the experience is and how its her own decision, many, many more come forwrad talking of the horrors they've endured. Sharon Kane, who is still tangentially involved in the industry, is no evangelist or holy roller. But read what she has to say about her former employers.

Something happens to the concept of human dignity when you sell access to vaginas and penii. And that something usually isn't very good.

[Jolt]

Of course it should be allowed. It is only disallowed because of religious moral. This is nothing short of muslim women wearing veils. If a human seeks sexual pleasure, he should have every right to do so and it only does a human psychologically and physically good. Unlike things like Cigars, which despite being legal and widespread, are extremely harmful for human health.

[Jolt]

Something happens to the concept of human dignity when you sell access to vaginas and penii. And that something usually isn't very good.

That is a religious concept. There is plenty of historical documentation from pre-Christianity, where prostitution was religiously sanctioned, and people viewed the concept of having sex with a sacred prostitutes as somewhat of a blessing of the said god to the man, blessing him for having had sex with the servant of the god. As such, saying that prostituting oneself is against human dignity is far far away from being true.

[Don Corleone]

That's really funny, Jolt. I bet most modern feminists, such as Susan Faludi, would laugh as heartily as I did at the notion that being opposed to trafficing in human sexuallity is a sure sign of religious thinking. I don't see where a belief in human dignity requires a religious context, but being as wise and all-knowing as you are, if you say it is so, it certainly must be so.

And you made your comment like an accusation. When did having spirtual considerations disqualify one from having a reasoned stance?

You know what I think? I think the people that favor legalizing prositution are those that earn their living through it and those that require it in order to engage in any sort of sexual activity that includes another person.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Unlike things like Cigars, which despite being legal and widespread, are extremely harmful for human health.

this is exactly the point to get across:

cigarettes are legal everywhere. they kill hundreds of thousands of people every year (if not millions), but prostitution, which is nothing more than paying for pleasure, is illegal.

however, i think that, on that note, prostitution should require a free license, which must be renewed every month, but is rejected if any STD's or other spreadable diseases are detected.

[pevergreen]

As a man once said on Australian TV (about 10 years ago now)

"If I'm at home, I'm lonely and I want to talk to a woman who's addicted to prozac and lying naked in a bath tub, then I should be allowed to do that."

"And so far you have been."

Was in relation to banning those late night TV ads with the 1800 or 1300 numbers for girls girls girls etc.

It relates to this, but having worked through the construction and opening and then after in a brothel (we did the phone system, from when the building was being done, to after the opening) the conditions of a legal brothel are terrible. The rooms the girls sleep in are smaller than our prison cells and less comfortable. And they have protection, in the form of alarms and cameras etc. On the street, there is nothing.

People would die.

Plus my view is sex paid for is not worth it, not matter how long its been.

[Ronin]

It makes no sense for it to be ilegal to sell something that is at the very same time completely legal to give away for free.

Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.... take the pimps out of the game and make it a regular activity.

[miotas]

Street prostitution is illegal here in Australia in all states but most states allow brothels, but there are many restrictions. Seems to make sense to have everything legal and above board, where the girls are in a safe protected environment rather than out wandering the streets where anything could happen to them and anyone could be exposed to them.

I've never been in one myself so I don't know what the interrior conditions are, but there was one in the industrial estate back home that I had to drive past most mornings for work, and it seemed a very professional buisness with plenty of security around the place.

It's something that will happen no matter what restrictions are placed on it, so rather than make the girls into criminals, just put them in a safe place where they are protected, and where society is protected from them. Plus the government gets to tax it.

[Jolt]

That's really funny, Jolt. I bet most modern feminists, such as Susan Faludi, would laugh as heartily as I did at the notion that being opposed to trafficing in human sexuallity is a sure sign of religious thinking. I don't see where a belief in human dignity requires a religious context, but being as wise and all-knowing as you are, if you say it is so, it certainly must be so.

Feminists are known to defend many positions I consider stupid. This is one of them. Human dignity requires no religious thinking when it comes from common sense (Right to live, right to physical integrity, right to social integration, etc.), however other things concerning human dignity (Like this one. The fact that, bluntly stated, the act of rubbing a part of our body to another body's part for the sake of pleasure is viewed as something that diminishes or affects human dignity) don't come from common sense.

And you made your comment like an accusation. When did having spirtual considerations disqualify one from having a reasoned stance?

If you interpreted my comment as an accusation, then I apologize as I had no such intention. You are allowed to reason based on spiritual considerations, but what I don't agree is the fact that one is enforcing prohibitions based on the said spiritual considerations.

You know what I think? I think the people that favor legalizing prositution are those that earn their living through it and those that require it in order to engage in any sort of sexual activity that includes another person.

Maybe that's the point of view you get over there in America, but let me tell you as far as myself and the society I know and interact with are concerned, that is blatantly wrong.

[Louis VI the Fat]

do you think prostitution should be legal?

Yes it should be legal. About bloody time those lascivious wenches started paying me for my efforts.

[AlexanderSextus]

Ahhh, my second favorite topic, aside from Legalization of Cannabis. This is partly due to the fact that i can use pretty much the EXACT same argument, but at the same time there are other reasons to have it be legal.

Legalize it, Tax it, and Regulate it. This is a good idea because, exactly like marijuana, Legalizing it would take it out of the hands of the criminal element and make it much safer.

As far as Prostitution being Degrading to women, i would like to make a distinction here:

There is Human Trafficking, and then there is Legalized Prostitution.

In Human trafficking, Women are treated like cattle. They are often abused and forced into Drug addiction. This is a horrible practice and should be stopped at all costs.

Currently, unless you live in the State of Nevada, USA, or Amsterdam, NL, Human Trafficking is a persons only option to pay for sex. You can contract All types of nasty Diseases. Once a woman is in, she never gets out.

However, if you go to Nevada, the Prostitutes will gladly tell you that they WANT to work at the brothel, and in so many words will say "Degrading? Hell, i filled out an application. I can quit this job ANY time i want to, no questions asked."

The Prostitutes receive health benefits and get FREE Compulsory STD and AIDS tests. There is an almost NIL chance that you will get an STD from a legal prostitute. Not to mention you are required to use condoms at a legal brothel, AFAIK.

Having Prostitution be Illegal is worse than it being legal.

And all Religious arguments against Prostitution are Bogus, because if you believe that Soliciting prostitution is a Sin, and it was legal to do so, you can simply make the choice NOT to do it!

[Beskar]

I don't believe Prostitution should be legal without heavy regulation, if it was done. After all, there are many laws and other various things in place. What happens if you catch an STD? Does this give you entitlement to sue the prostitute? What about if you got the STD?

There are many health complications and other complications which prevents prostitution being a legal business. It just cannot be regulation in a fair and correct manner.

[AlexanderSextus]

I don't believe Prostitution should be legal without heavy regulation, if it was done. After all, there are many laws and other various things in place. What happens if you catch an STD? Does this give you entitlement to sue the prostitute? What about if you got the STD?

There are many health complications and other complications which prevents prostitution being a legal business. It just cannot be regulation in a fair and correct manner.

if it were legal then you absolutely would be entitled to sue the brothel since it would have to be regulation for the brothel to ensure that safe sex be practiced at all times.

[Hooahguy]

o cmon AS you know sometimes condoms doesnt stop STDs, like if theres a breakage.

[AlexanderSextus]

o cmon AS you know sometimes condoms doesnt stop STDs, like if theres a breakage.

yeah but see it would also be regulation that if someone tests positive for an STD they should be fired on the spot. so even if the condom breaks you wont get anything.

They would have to get tested damn near every day. at least every other day.

[Jolt]

Every 2 weeks would be fine I suppose. Using condoms usually helps to avoid STDs.

[HoreTore]

Prostitution, ie. selling your body, should be legal. Buying it should be illegal. Punish the buyer, not the seller.

Prostitution is a poverty issue. People prostitute themselves because they're poor(or forced). None of them wants to. The happy hooker myth is just that - a myth.


The "luxury escorts" fall in a different category though. That might not be illegal.

[Caius]

The "luxury escorts" fall in a different category though. That might not be illegal.

Ask Berlusconi.

[miotas]

Here in NSW it is illegal for people to live off the proceeds of prostitution. ie they can only work at a brothel as secondary, part time employment.

[Prussian to the Iron]

well, if you are a poor woman, what would you rather do:

work in a place with minimum wage?

OR

work for large sums of money, mainly at night, and gain satisfaction most times. not all times, but some.


Concerning STD's: prostitutes should have to get an STD test every 2 weeks, and a consumer should have to take an STD test before purchasing 'services'.

that way, there is no excuse if one party contracts an STD, and frequent buyers or sellers can tell who transmitted it.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Prostitution, ie. selling your body, should be legal. Buying it should be illegal. Punish the buyer, not the seller.

And that simply means its forced deeper 'underground' because johns aren't going to buy where they can be caught.

So legalize it, because punishing someone in that situation is just cruel. What does making it illegal do? We see cops busting prostitutes, who aren't hurting anyone and are likely bad off themselves.

So Nevada's solution might be the least of several evils.

CR

[Beefy187]

Thats why you drool at imaginary girls.
With Anime girls and Adult game girls, everyone wins

As for prostitution, all prostitutes should be managed by the government. I think that settles the pimping problem.

Prostitute here are quite happy with what they are doing, high earning job for those who love sex. Though the illegal ones tends to be a mess.

[Dîn-Heru]

Prostitution, ie. selling your body, should be legal. Buying it should be illegal. Punish the buyer, not the seller.

Do you have any evidence that this has actually worked in Norway, I seem to recall hearing that visible prostitution disappeared after the law was introduced (in Oslo, in Bergen I believe the police did not direct enough resources towards it), but that it is back now.

And how do you propose that a prostitute can exercise her legal right to sell her/(his) body if her/(his) potential costumers risk trouble with the police if they buy it? (Edit: If we look at it in principle)

I honestly can't see how you can defend this notion without a serious case of doublethink...
(Edit: during the writing of the post, I sort of came to the same conclusion myself, when we are dealing with the real world..)


On the actual topic itself. In principle I am for legalization of prostitution (buying and selling), however that being said I am not sure that it should be legal in reality exactly for the reasons that HoreTore state, that it is most often poor, drugaddicts, and women who are forced into prostitution who sell their body.

[Prussian to the Iron]

i am pretty sure we all agree that forced prostitution is a bad thing. lets get off the topic: this is more about wiling, individual selling of sex, or willing sale of sex in a brothel or formal organizatin of some sort, with certain requirements in regards to hygiene and policies.

simply put:

There is Human Trafficking, and then there is Legalized Prostitution.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm mixed in my opinion on this issue. While I do in essence agree with Don, I just don't see the practicality of enforcing it's legality. Its almost on the same page in some ways as the Marijuana debate, if it's regulated I don't see what the problem is.

[CountArach]

If we make it legal we can regulate it much more tightly to ensure better working conditions and higher health standards for the workers.

Also I find the idea of a Prostitute Union amusing.

[HoreTore]

work for large sums of money, mainly at night, and gain satisfaction most times. not all times, but some.

1. Prostitutes don't earn "large sums of money". A lot of the money goes to your pimp. What's left is used to buy heroin.
2. Satisfaction...? You seriously believe that street hookers get satisfaction...?

Do you have any evidence that this has actually worked in Norway, I seem to recall hearing that visible prostitution disappeared after the law was introduced (in Oslo, in Bergen I believe the police did not direct enough resources towards it), but that it is back now.

Gawd, start reading Dagbladet, there have been a gahzillion articles on this since January 1st*. Or take a walk around Karl Johan.

The result, as of now, is that there has been an extreme reduction in the number of prostitutes who are trafficking victims. This is because they were aimed at the street market, which is now almost gone. There were 3-400 here last summer, what you heard as "they're back" was when there were some 30 prostitutes around, who left almost as quickly as they came. As for norwegian prostitutes(the drug addicts), they've either quit or moved inside. The area which haven't seen as much reduction, are the eastern european prostitutes who "tour" Norway, moving from hotel to hotel. But honestly, there's not much we can do about them, as fixing poverty in eastern europe is something that, ultimately, the eastern european governments have to do themselves.

So all in all, the law has been a success.

And how do you propose that a prostitute can exercise her legal right to sell her/(his) body if her/(his) potential costumers risk trouble with the police if they buy it? (Edit: If we look at it in principle)

I honestly can't see how you can defend this notion without a serious case of doublethink...
(Edit: during the writing of the post, I sort of came to the same conclusion myself, when we are dealing with the real world..)

There is no "principle" here. There is no "legal right to sell". The law is made the way it is simply because of who we want to punish. We have no need to punish prostitutes, where's the sense in that? The only reason to punish a prostitute, is if we're overly religious, which we are not. But punishing the buyer is with a different reasoning, it is to cut the market for traffickers and pimps. If noone wants to buy, noone can make a profit from selling women.

*for non-norwegians, this is when we banned prostitution.