Stupidity - the single reason why democracies never work

[Brenus]

Carry on Louis. “Mords lui l’oreille”…

It is not because Serbia refused to participate in NATO’s manoeuvre in Georgia that they celebrate the Russian victory by the way…

Generalisations are there to find some gold nuggets in tones of … mud.

Can we add in the Russian – Serbian axe Chavez? Please?
Because it reminds me a Serbian saying about the Ever Hodza’s Albania: We (Albanian) are with the Chinese one Billion…

And because I am in Serbian Saying: God, protect as from the Russian friendship….

[Louis VI the Fat]

Of course, it failed to mention any positive sides, but honestly, I would not have expected you to read about any of those.

Plenty of positives are reported on, are widely available.
Lake Baikal is beautiful in spring. The small towns in North Carolina are full of great people. On the .org however, we discuss Putin and Bush. If it doesn't involve bombs falling, it is not discussed.

That's because Louis and I have had discussions before. (He was completely trounced of course, but he won't admit it )

In your dreams. I just got bored with the subject.
I maintain that Serbia was a major force behind the tragedy that raged in Yugoslavia for a decade. You maintain that Serbia was a poor victim and that America/the West needs to apologise to Serbia and pay reparations.
(Brenus for his part emphasises a more holistic view)

We can argue 'till we are blue in the face. But I'll leave it for the next round. Rest assured we'll have even more victims of mass murder dug up and identified from their mass graves. That I can use to smite you and Brenus with. Maybe Serbia will even have been forced to hand over more of those mass murderers it is still shielding.

I too understand that the situation in Yugoslavia was very real, involving real people.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Private ownership but government control isn't all that much more appealing to me than is outright government ownership

There is no private ownership outside of ownership protected by the state. Laws decide what is ownership, and government control protects ownership.

Monkeys don't have ownership. They sit in trees that they protect against other monkeys. That is ownership without government.

Ownership as we know it, on the other hand, exists because the law designates it ownership. All that you can do, is to work within the system, or work the government, to protect and enlarge your share.


Currently, the government works for you, and protects your share. This is under threat. So in a defensive move you work the government:

You are going right to the heart of my concern Louis. Yes, I believe we would be better off with a suffrage that is restricted
[...]
I DO want somebody who sees themselves as a having a "stake" in the long-term success of the society. I just haven't figured out a way to do it without resorting to something that is worse in terms of individual liberty than the current system.

I would say that one can start by pondering better means of giving everybody a stake in society. Instead of further disenfranchising those who already are.
Never change the electorate when policies don't work out. Change the politicians and the policies.

The heart of my concern, in turn, is that the US has gone, within a few generations, from a country of possibilities to a closed shop. It is divided between haves and have-nots, to an extent not witnessed in the West since 19th century Europe.

And all I hear from the haves is talk about 'leechers', who consequently need to be stripped even of their right to be acknowledged as a citizen. The haves are turning into the landlords their ancestors fled from last century. Making America Ireland, 1845.


Two more unrelated comments:
Of course, in my heart of hearts, I wish you would succeed. That those who can not apply long-term thinking were stripped of their vote. That the more uneducated part of society would stop voting itself out of existence. That they would not swap their livelyhood and their healthcare for a prayer and a flagpin anymore.

Lastly, Europe, too, is quickly losing its social-democracy. I blame the importation of a vast and permanent underclass. Solidarity is stretched to the limit. Socialism has dug its own grave with its insistence of endlessly extending solidarity outwards. In twenty years time, I'll agree with you. As for now, I'll scold you. Such is the perennial fate of the American talking to a European.

[Brenus]

“I maintain that Serbia was a major force behind the tragedy that raged in Yugoslavia for a decade.”
No problem with this as your analyse based on information given to you, provided I would say Milosevic.
Then you have to accept that Milosevic did exploit a situation he didn’t create…
SERBIA / MILOSEVIC didn’t initiate the first blood, to paraphrase Rambo (1st one).

In my one theory, Milosevic and Tudjman were accomplice in murdering Yugoslavia.
But I agree it is another subject.

“Rest assured we'll have even more victims of mass murder dug up and identified from their mass graves. That I can use to smite you and Brenus with. Maybe Serbia will even have been forced to hand over more of those mass murderers it is still shielding.”
Probably.
Can’t wait that after 15 years we will finally find them, and to see the satellite pictures and the proofs of horse shoes operation and the systematic campaign of rapes and….
Sorry to be cynic.

But you won’t have to answer for the mass murder made by the others sides.
The International Community is good in creating Serbian War Criminals…

And as we know and shown in and by The Hague “International” Court of Justice, war crimes against Serbs are not war crimes…

About the privatisation process in the East, I saw it in Macedonia (FYROM/ARYM).
The State announced a privatisation process of the state own company.
Managers (all from communist party) fired workers, sold the machines to relatives/friends) making value of the company close to zero.
The company is assessed. They bought their own company for nothing and the shares from their former employees.
Then they bring back the machines. They’ve got all the contact to start to work… Job done…
After they emigrate to England and buy football clubs…