Oh the woes of those poor, hunted billionares...

[Ice]

Really? What annoys me is multi-millionaires who pay less tax than me.

Nice to know, although this really doesn't justify your statement.

[Centurion1]

Originally Posted by Idaho
Really? What annoys me is multi-millionaires who pay less tax than me.

Oh are you a billionaire?

[Idaho]

Nice to know, although this really doesn't justify your statement.

I think my statement is fair enough. There is rampant poverty, disease and hardship in the world, and some billionaire gets angry because a state which has helped him earn $30 million in a year wants to claim $5 million to help pay for infrastructure.

[Centurion1]

I thought you said that they payed less than you. Wow you must make alot of money if they pay 5 million. (sorry couldn't resist)

[HoreTore]

I thought you said that they payed less than you. Wow you must make alot of money if they pay 5 million. (sorry couldn't resist)

Nah, it's the opposite; if he made a lot of money he wouldn't be paying much in tax, while if he doesn't make a lot of money, he will pay a lot in tax

[Centurion1]

On a serious note horetore. you realize that like all rich people pay more taxes than a poor person. They may not pay as much as their supposed to but they will probably pay more.

[HoreTore]

On a serious note horetore. you realize that like all rich people pay more taxes than a poor person. They may not pay as much as their supposed to but they will probably pay more.

Percentage-wise, no. And that's the real point, as a poor man is hurt way more than a rich man by the taxes.

And yet it's the rich guys who are whining most about it...

[Centurion1]

i know percentage they may or may not (many do though), but i meant as a raw number.

[Ice]

I think my statement is fair enough. There is rampant poverty, disease and hardship in the world, and some billionaire gets angry because a state which has helped him earn $30 million in a year wants to claim $5 million to help pay for infrastructure.

Idaho, you are missing my objection to your quote. I inferred that you meant that millionares have nothing better to do with their money than buy an ivory backscratcher. This is simply not true. There are many millionaries who give the extra money they made to charity or use it another useful manner. Not everyone who makes money is a greedy SOB, and I strongly dislike when people try to make that point.

[Idaho]

Idaho, you are missing my objection to your quote. I inferred that you meant that millionares have nothing better to do with their money than buy an ivory backscratcher. This is simply not true. There are many millionaries who give the extra money they made to charity or use it another useful manner. Not everyone who makes money is a greedy SOB, and I strongly dislike when people try to make that point.

A millionaire who leaves a restaurant without paying their bill is a thief. A millionaire who leaves a country without paying their tax is also a thief.

[Ice]

A millionaire who leaves a restaurant without paying their bill is a thief. A millionaire who leaves a country without paying their tax is also a thief.

I'm not talking about this particular situation.

[Aemilius Paulus]

A millionaire who leaves a restaurant without paying their bill is a thief. A millionaire who leaves a country without paying their tax is also a thief.

That would be a simplification, and we are taught to be cautious in the face of them... Not that you are correct or incorrect, just noting that simplifying politics and economics tends to not work/ be accurate. A good rhetorical metaphor though.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Tax refugees are paupers who can't afford to live in a civilized country.


I do want to close the loopholes within the civilized world. Monaco, Switzerland, Ireland, all those little islands of dubious sovereignity. I say we force them closed, and force the tax refugees into the jungle. Force 'em to try Colombia and the Congo, let 'em find out how well protected their wealth is in countries without stable governments and the rule of law - you know, all that 'wasteful nonsense' that civilized people pay top tax dollars for.

[Centurion1]

Actually it would probably be pretty safe. a billionaire could most likely buy the congo. And therefore buy all the guns

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Why do people have to assume that billionaires are inherently evil and selfish due to some weird and mysterious twist? So is everyone, the difference being that millionaires have money to indulge in their excentricities. Take Berlusconi... Who the hell wouldn't want to live that kind of morally reproachable but pleasant lifestyle? Of course, most of us don't have the money for high class whores and security guards, so we spend our nights watching porn instead or doing it with the girl next door.

[Sigurd]

This is only saber rattling by Hagen.
He is a known "right" man and there is an election soon.

What he is protesting against is our assets tax (fortune tax) which very few of our neighboring countries have.
If you have assets - that is, what you own of value minus debt is taxable. Let's say you own a house, a car, a boat and some stocks. You have a mortgage on the house but you have done well and your other assets have no debt.

If your house is worth 4 500 000 (which is not too uncommon for new houses) and you have about 2 000 000 on the mortgage. Mortgage is good to have when it comes to paying taxes
You have been working the stock marked and had some luck.
Let's say you currently have stocks worth 5 000 000
You have used profits made earlier to buy two nice cars, expensive furniture and a sail boat.

Let's see: (in NoK - 100 000 would be US$ 16 000 and € 12 000)

House - 4 500 000
Cash - (money in the bank) 100 000
Stocks - 5 000 000
Car1(Volvo V70) - 500 000
Car2(BMW M5) - 1 300 000
assets (furniture etc.) - 2 000 000
Sailboat - 3 000 000

From this the taxable amounts would be

House - 1 237 500
Cash - 97 000
Stock - 5 000 000
Car1 - 325 000
Car2 - 845 000
Assets - 320 000
Sailboat - 2 250 000

Total (gross fortune) - 10 074 500
minus debt - 2 000 000

tax assessment = 8 074 500

Tax free : 350 000
taxed by 0.9 percent : 190 000
taxed by 1.1 percent : 7 534 500

Tax = 84 590

So in addition to paying taxes on everything I earn (30%) and everything i buy (25%), I have to pay taxes for what I own.
That is OK you say since I earn like 840 000 NoK a year (before tax) and have the cash flow.
but I have to tithe annually to the state because I happen to have been lucky at the stocks. Mind you the stock value is not realized and could swing either way.

What about people like Hagen who has stock values in the billions? Do you think he can pay this stock from what he takes out in cash? Nope.. he is forced to realize stock (by selling) or take up loans to to pay this tax.
Unfair ??

What about the poor old woman in the house she and her now diseased husband have fought and payed for in a life time and finally in the last decade paid out all mortgage?
She sits on a minimum pension, but have a house worth quite a bit due to the crazy real estate marked.
She does not understand why she needs to pay half her income to a "fortune tax". She does not sit on a fortune, she thinks. She sits in the old chair that she has always sat in.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yes, well, such is the nature of living in a social democracy. Of course this tax isn't exclusive to Norway. That is what the poor prosecuted rich think everywhere, that only in their country they are 'punished' for doing well. In France, one pays 'Impôt de solidarité sur la fortune', or ISF. It works exactly the same as Norway's wealth tax.

And in France too, many wealthy flee to Switzerland. Johnny Hallyday is a notable example. Get rich in France, move to Monaco to avoid income tax, and move your capital to Switzerland to avoid wealth tax.

This is how the very wealthy manage to avoid paying their share. Bunch of leechers. It is taxes like this that is the difference between Brazil and Europe. It is why Norway has the world's highest social mobility, and Brazil one of the lowest. Brazil has very few self-made men. Scandinavia abounds in them. Yet, once they've made it, they cry and complain about the unfairness of it all. Losers.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I am bowing out of this conversation because all these taxes and what the guy is paying or not paying is going over my head. I don't even understand wtf kind of tax this guy, horetore tells me its the asset tax but from sigurd I got the impression that if he is worth billions he would be taxed more then 10 million. Whatever, I am done. I am going to read a taxes for dummies book.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I am bowing out of this conversation because all these taxes and what the guy is paying or not paying is going over my head. I don't even understand wtf kind of tax this guy, horetore tells me its the asset tax but from sigurd I got the impression that if he is worth billions he would be taxed more then 10 million. Whatever, I am done. I am going to read a taxes for dummies book.

The tax is best compared to American property tax. The difference is that the clever, at least: practical, Americans understand that if you employ a wealth tax, net tax revenue actually decreases: capital is simply moved. However, real estate can not be moved, so this is what is taxed in America.


Or, to summarize the cold hard facts of this thread: billionaires everywhere leech off the system.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The tax is best compared to American property tax. The difference is that the clever, at least: practical, Americans understand that if you employ a wealth tax, net tax revenue actually decreases: capital is simply moved. However, real estate can not be moved, so this is what is taxed in America.


Or, to summarize the cold hard facts of this thread: billionaires everywhere leech off the system.

Ok, that makes makes sense.

[HoreTore]

The tax is best compared to American property tax. The difference is that the clever, at least: practical, Americans understand that if you employ a wealth tax, net tax revenue actually decreases: capital is simply moved. However, real estate can not be moved, so this is what is taxed in America.

But hey, one can easily have both