Princess in EBII

[Cute Wolf]

Just curious, how about adding princess FM, as the way to got a long-lasting alliance as in M2TW? Think about The Ptolemies can give their daughters to Phrrhos, The Seleukids, and even Romans... emulating the marriage alliance in this era...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It has been discussed, and as I don't believe there is a final answer on it, I don't believe they will be used. One main reason being the wish to avoid the theft of enemy generals that Princesses can do.

[General Appo]

While marriage alliances were far from non-existant, they were not nearly as common as in medieval times, or so at least it appears to me.

[Krusader]

While marriage alliances were far from non-existant, they were not nearly as common as in medieval times, or so at least it appears to me.

A quick look at the Diadochoi kingdoms will tell you otherwise. The early Ptolemies & Seleukids married their daughters here and there. Antiochos III had a Pontic princess as wife, Hierax had a Bithynian (or maybe Pontic as well), Attalos I's mother might have been Seleukid too. Ptolemaiois I was married at first with a daughter of Antipater (who seemed to marry his daughters off to most power players). Pontic Kings had wives from the Seleukid royal house as well.

The Roman nobility though did not marry outside the Roman families or at least it was almost taboo to do so, case in point being Caesar & Mark Anthony's relationship to Cleopatra. Ptolemaiois V or VI wanted to marry a prominent Roman noblewoman, but the sources say she refused to marry a foreigner which apparently won her much renown in Rome itself. So at least marriages between Romans & other factions should not be ingame.
As for the remaining factions, from what I gather marriages between them would not be looked down upon, as Hannibal & Hasdrubal both had Iberian princesses at least. Celts & Germans I have no idea on, but considering Celts intermarried with peoples they conquered and/or settled with I would take an educated guess and say they would not find it problematic.

[ziegenpeter]

Unfortunatly, you can't divorce in MTWII, which was AFAIK also very common in ancient times.

[oudysseos]

Is stealing enemy generals really so bad? First of all I don't think it's all that common- I hardly ever succeeded with it when I tried out DLV and PDER. And even if you do have to odd general switching sides- that occasionally did happen. Ptolemy Keraunos, for a perfect example. Coriolanus, maybe. Polybius, even. The 'marriage' part could be considered abstractly, the same way that a 'Man of the Hour' turns up in the family tree as someone's son or husband. I think the team should consider leaving it in- bribing generals hardly ever works unless you have a huge bank balance.

[Elmetiacos]

Celts & Germans I have no idea on, but considering Celts intermarried with peoples they conquered and/or settled with I would take an educated guess and say they would not find it problematic.

Queen Cartimandua of the Brigantes seems to have married Venutius purely to bring his tribe into the Brigantian federation, judging by her later actions, but that was a ruling queen rather than a princess. Bearing in mind how easy divorce seems to have been for Celtic women, it would perhaps have been of limited political value.

[Cyclops]

Quality post by K.

A quick look at the Diadochoi kingdoms will tell you otherwise. The early Ptolemies & Seleukids married their daughters here and there. Antiochos III had a Pontic princess as wife, Hierax had a Bithynian (or maybe Pontic as well), Attalos I's mother might have been Seleukid too. Ptolemaiois I was married at first with a daughter of Antipater (who seemed to marry his daughters off to most power players). Pontic Kings had wives from the Seleukid royal house as well...

..so its very useful to have dynastic/alliance marriages in game at least among the Diadochi/Persian fragments.

...The Roman nobility though did not marry outside the Roman families or at least it was almost taboo to do so, case in point being Caesar & Mark Anthony's relationship to Cleopatra. Ptolemaiois V or VI wanted to marry a prominent Roman noblewoman, but the sources say she refused to marry a foreigner which apparently won her much renown in Rome itself. So at least marriages between Romans & other factions should not be ingame...

I believe Roman women did marry provincials including ones with Greek culture, but this may be from Tacitus rather despairing view of the somewhat decadent Principate rather than the EB period middleto late Republic.

Was Mark Antony seduced into the Ptomaic faction? Augustus' propaganda might insist he was no longer a real Roman, but he still led legions. I can't think of a single general changing sides for sex (but see Syphax below).

If we buy Octavian's guff this might be modelled by MA marrying (being seduced by) Kleopatra: except she was a bit old to be a princess still, and he ws already married etc etc.

...As for the remaining factions, from what I gather marriages between them would not be looked down upon, as Hannibal & Hasdrubal both had Iberian princesses at least. Celts & Germans I have no idea on, but considering Celts intermarried with peoples they conquered and/or settled with I would take an educated guess and say they would not find it problematic.

The one I always think of is Sophonisba marrying Syphax to bring the Numidians back into the Karthi fold (this is a FL and his faction changing sides for sex, not a general/FM). Karthis did marry out, unlike the socially xenophobic, politically inclusive Romani.

There seems to be solid defensible arguments for including princesses as alliance/loyalty tools (esp in the east ) "seducers" (a few dubious examples) and freebie diplomats: to my mind the last one is the least likely but can you switch it off and keep the seducer or marriage proposal aspect on?

[lobf]

While marriage alliances were far from non-existant, they were not nearly as common as in medieval times, or so at least it appears to me.

They did it pretty commonly in ancient Mesopotamia, too.

[Cartaphilus]

Is it possible that a (young) widow will marry again?
I suppose that it's hardcoded - and so impossible.
But it could be great - for example, the romans married "hundreds" of times like us the barbarians of 2008AD.

[ziegenpeter]

Is that hardcoded or can you have princesses without the theft feature?