question: thorakitai hoplitai vs. thorakitai

[m0r1d1n]

i was trying variety of selections to find an ideal MP army for KH..i saw in the unit stats that thorakitai hoplitai are slightly better in def., morale and attack (AP swords) than thorakitai but when i tried them out in 1 on 1's in the custom battle(medium)...
T.H./Thorak vs. principes(poly)
T.H vs. Thoraks
thorakitai kicked ass against principes and thorak hops..while t.h. won marginally in first and lost rather badly in the second case..my question wold be if someone could explain , cause i seem to be missing a vital stat understanding...
would appreciate the help....

[Cute Wolf]

U missing lethality.... ap swords usually has less lethality...

[m0r1d1n]

thanks..
so since they both have same cost...is there any advantage that thorak hops have over thoraks???

[antisocialmunky]

Actually they end up about the same effectiveness. Its either 10 attack * .11 lethality(somehow factor in the AP) or 15 * 1.3. However you get a -4 defense with the spear so... yeah.

The hoplite variety have higher mass and way higher morale. Perhaps the larger spacing of the Thorakitai allowed them to wrap the Thorakitai Hoplitai(which has a tighter spacing).

[Cute Wolf]

Thorakitai hoplitai are made for heavy close combat against extremely armoured units (use them fight cataphracts, hypaspistai, or even TAB, and their kind... Thorakitai Hoplitai are "counter-elite" units for the most, on the other hand, THorakitai are line units most effective against numerous lesser units, as many overhand spears do. With jav, they can really wearing down enemy line...

[m0r1d1n]

thx u guys...

so if i got the points correct i should use them at rear of line to protect against elite flankers and cav..but i just tried them in custom battle...
1 vs. 1
Thorak hop. vs. gaestae...T.H. lose and kill just 8 enemy
thorakitai win the same battle...

vs. hetairoi...frontal charge faced twice and then counter charged..both won ...thoraks did more damage


i do not understand..

[antisocialmunky]

Use whatever you think is better. And AP weapons would be terrible vs Gaesatae. TBH - every hoplite in the KH Roster above Classical Hoplites is uneconomical.

[m0r1d1n]

Use whatever you think is better. And AP weapons would be terrible vs Gaesatae. TBH - every hoplite in the KH Roster above Classical Hoplites is uneconomical.

did'nt mean to be annoying..., just trying to forge a KH MP army..i was thinking of going with them for nxt tourney..cant make an army of just hoplitai...they dont kill people..help me out here guys...

[antisocialmunky]

Did you use them in guard mode or attack? If you kept them in guard mode they should have slaughtered the Romans.

[m0r1d1n]

guard mode on...standing..poly pricipes charged head on...principes win..50 survive...
i just did it again...also, i tried charging at em with guard mode off..and this time Thorakitai hoplites win......
i don't know man....i guess they got thoroughly surrounded when flaked..in a line, they would probably win...i would like to try out in a MP battle sometime..

[antisocialmunky]

Call me when you're online. From my experience they beat Principes but take heavy casualties.

[m0r1d1n]

thanks man...i am online now but cant play..have to leave in like 20 min...i'll png u though..thx for the offer and help..