The misunderstanding of religion

**Marshal Murat** · 08-06-2009, 16:16

Oh, and Rhyfelwyr, perhaps you should keep christianity's track record on domestic violence in mind when making such statements

How else is one supposed to interpret this statement?

**HoreTore** · 08-06-2009, 16:22

Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

How else is one supposed to interpret this statement?

Uhm....

How 'bout "the correct way"? Or even better, why not try simply reading it, instead of trying to interpret it to death?

It certainly should not be interpreted as "Christianity (alone) is the cause of all domestic violence". How you people managed to get that from it is beyond me, really.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-06-2009, 17:10

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm....

How 'bout "the correct way"? Or even better, why not try simply reading it, instead of trying to interpret it to death?

It certainly should not be interpreted as "Christianity (alone) is the cause of all domestic violence". How you people managed to get that from it is beyond me, really.

It's pretty clearly aimed at insinuating Christianity causes violence, given that Rhy and I were explicitely saying Football does. As to crime, racism etc. Football worsens those, especially when national teams are involved.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-06-2009, 18:07

Don't take my word for it, here are some figures, an 88% rise is pretty significant.

**HoreTore** · 08-06-2009, 21:12

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

It's pretty clearly aimed at insinuating Christianity causes violence, given that Rhy and I were explicitely saying Football does.

Pure nonsense.

It was aimed at ridiculing your claim that football causes domestic violence. I was reminding Rhy that the case against christianity would be as good as the case against football - but then again, I don't believe that football causes violence. And I don't believe that christianity itself causes violence. Idiots watching football? Sure, they can get violent. Idiots preaching at a church? Sure, they can encourage violence. None of them represent the mainstream of either.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

As to crime, racism etc. Football worsens those, especially when national teams are involved.

Nonsense again. Football is more than the elites. Football is about the millions of children who play the game. Those you see on the telly is just a tiny bit of what football is about. Football worsens racism and causes violence? No. Some supporters show obvious racism and get violent when watching football. But those are people who already are racist and violent, they would've caused the same trouble with or without football. They use a football match as their excuse to get violent - if not for football, they would've found another excuse.

And again, that's a tiny tiny part of what football is about. For the majority of football players, the millions of children, football represent teamwork, joy, tolerance, a feeling that they're mastering something... I could go on for pages.

Take Norway Cup. I remember my last year in that cup, in the last game we were knocked out by a side from Ghana. We were soundly thrashed, it's the only time I've actually been dizzy after trying to stop a striker... You think anyone on my team thought of africans as sub-humans or whatever after that experience? No, we gained a respect for them. An immense respect.

And if you find a Norwegian who doesn't want Carew on the national side because he's black, or a swede who doesn't want Ibrahimovic because he's muslim.... Well, then you've probably found yourself one of the world's most hardened racists.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-06-2009, 21:59

I think what you say there is generally true HoreTore, but don't you think that the sporting events themselves do provide an outlet for the thugs?

Originally Posted by HoreTore

And if you find a Norwegian who doesn't want Carew on the national side because he's black, or a swede who doesn't want Ibrahimovic because he's muslim.... Well, then you've probably found yourself one of the world's most hardened racists.

Kind of off topic, but isn't the whole idea of national football teams racist? IIRC, one of the football bodies defined racism as discrimination based on ethnicity or nationality (after some Old Firm controversy, surprise, surprise). So if only Scots can play for Scotland, Nigerians for Nigeria, Mexicans for Mexico etc...

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-06-2009, 22:01

Clearly, you know nothing about British Football, "A Gentleman's game played by thugs".

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-06-2009, 22:47

Since HoreTore is continuing in his beliefs despite the given statistical data which should lead him to believe otherwise, I can only presume HoreTore's beliefs are founded upon blind faith, why argue with him?

**Centurion1** · 08-07-2009, 03:08

^ Ah, and the pure futility of even arguing in the backroom is revelaed. NO ONE changes their minds.

**HoreTore** · 08-07-2009, 08:12

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I think what you say there is generally true HoreTore, but don't you think that the sporting events themselves do provide an outlet for the thugs?

Do you think that certain ministers provide an outlet for the thugs?

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Kind of off topic, but isn't the whole idea of national football teams racist? IIRC, one of the football bodies defined racism as discrimination based on ethnicity or nationality (after some Old Firm controversy, surprise, surprise). So if only Scots can play for Scotland, Nigerians for Nigeria, Mexicans for Mexico etc...

Nonsense. As evidence to the contrary, I present the aforementioned Carew and Ibrahimovic.

Also, it's just not true that "only scots can play for scotland". Anyone without international apps for another national side can play for scotland.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Clearly, you know nothing about British Football, "A Gentleman's game played by thugs".

Again you fail miserably to read my post.

Football isn't about the premier league sides. Football is about the 9-year old.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-07-2009, 10:37

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Again you fail miserably to read my post.

Football isn't about the premier league sides. Football is about the 9-year old.

All the nine year-olds want to be Beckham when they grow up, or a Firm Hooligan; depending on Dad. Or, they just grow up with emotional problems because their masculinity is all tied up in a pathetic football team.

So, it's about both because you can't have one without the other.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-07-2009, 13:15

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Do you think that certain ministers provide an outlet for the thugs?

They probably have protected them at times when they knew bad things were going on. What's with the random diversion though, I though we were talking about football?

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Nonsense. As evidence to the contrary, I present the aforementioned Carew and Ibrahimovic.

Also, it's just not true that "only scots can play for scotland". Anyone without international apps for another national side can play for scotland.

O RLY? In that case I'll sign for San Marino, I reckon I could make their team and I get to play against the top guys in the world...

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Football isn't about the premier league sides. Football is about the 9-year old.

Football is about the premier league sides. It's also about the championship sides, the coca-cola league sides, the conference sides, the amateur sides, the sunday league sides, and the childrens teams.

Anyway, I'm not meaning to argue that football is bad, since I like football, it's my favourite sport and I played it up until I was maybe 15 or so, and I still go to watch my local team every week. But it is silly how this argument is getting so polarised, football can bring good and bad sides, OK?