Taka and Pelte

**spiritusdilutus** · 08-03-2009, 08:20

Originally Posted by satalexton

Semi-off the time frame...i think.

Are there any links between the persian-median Taka shield and the Thraikian Pelte?

I noticed that they're both cresent shaped, and fill the same niche in the battlefield as the skirmisher's first (and only) tool of defence.

Individual development or cultural influence?

p.s. No pics, I'm slacking at work =P

hmm....... Interesting question, worth further research. I would say individual development. Something in their shape, usefulness and characteristics that makes them appeal to both remote factions.

**Watchman** · 08-03-2009, 13:10

IIRC the Persians picked theirs up from their nomad cousins in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Dunno where the Thracians came up with it and if they picked it up from the Scythians and others drifting down the western Black Sea coast or not, but given that there were also Thracians in northwestern Asia Minor the quite useful form was presumably soon picked up by their various neighbours. The peculiar takabara "crescent shield spearmen" and "crescent shield archers" the Achaemenids began using in Asia Minor at least after the Persian Wars (presumably because such mobile light infantry was better suited to dealing with hoplites than the somewhat static "archer-pair" system) have been theorised by some authors to have been pretty much straight copypastas of some local hill tribes' war gear, and for that matter, probably largely consisted of said hill tribes working as mercenaries.

**satalexton** · 08-03-2009, 13:51

=/ if the thraikioi copied the persian taka, when y not copy their choppas?

**Watchman** · 08-03-2009, 14:51

Originally Posted by satalexton

=/ if the thraikioi copied the persian taka, when y not copy their choppas?

For one thing, Scythians =/= Persians though both *are* Iranian-speakers. For another, AFAIK they picked up the kopis/machaira too. For a third, they went one better in the rhomphaia.

**satalexton** · 08-03-2009, 17:05

aren't they ancesterally the same stock of people though? the Westward migration of indo european tribes, those that settled earlier became persians...those that kept riding their ponies...became the scythians....

I know I'm making a lot of generalizing assumptions there, correct me.

**spiritusdilutus** · 08-03-2009, 17:35

Originally Posted by satalexton

aren't they ancesterally the same stock of people though? the Westward migration of indo european tribes, those that settled earlier became persians...those that kept riding their ponies...became the scythians....

I know I'm making a lot of generalizing assumptions there, correct me.

Yes, you`re right, Persian and Scythian are both classified as Indo-Aryan languages.

**antisocialmunky** · 08-03-2009, 18:19

They're more like closely related cousins.

**spiritusdilutus** · 08-03-2009, 14:25

Originally Posted by Watchman

IIRC the Persians picked theirs up from their nomad cousins in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Dunno where the Thracians came up with it and if they picked it up from the Scythians and others drifting down the western Black Sea coast or not, but given that there were also Thracians in northwestern Asia Minor the quite useful form was presumably soon picked up by their various neighbours. The peculiar takabara "crescent shield spearmen" and "crescent shield archers" the Achaemenids began using in Asia Minor at least after the Persian Wars (presumably because such mobile light infantry was better suited to dealing with hoplites than the somewhat static "archer-pair" system) have been theorised by some authors to have been pretty much straight copypastas of some local hill tribes' war gear, and for that matter, probably largely consisted of said hill tribes working as mercenaries.

Good theory! Suomalainen dude!