OT: Belgium discussion

Dude, never gonna happen. And were quite different too.

Originally Posted by Moros

Dude, never gonna happen. And were quite different too.

Seconded, we are very different, as is our history. We might have shared a decent amount of time together as a kingdom, county or wathever, but had lots of conflicts and differences over the history of time.

And I don't think our federal system will disappear in 20 years, it will probably be stalled for another 50 ones...

BTW, in real life, the conflict between the Walloons and the Flemish doesn't really exist, it mainly a political and geogaphical (Brussels) conflict.

Maybe we could unite our football leagues, Eredivisie and Jupiler League (I think it is called that in Belgium?) together would mean a great step up in quality.


We are going offtopic, right?

Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus

Maybe we could unite our football leagues, Eredivisie and Jupiler League (I think it is called that in Belgium?) together would mean a great step up in quality.


We are going offtopic, right?

It did go 2 pages past or so. Actually contemplating if I should make a Dutch-Flemish Appreciation thread out of the OT posts

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Map of Belgium

Wow, considering that Belgium is about the size of Delaware, USA. That's a butt-ton of divisions.

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Wow, considering that Belgium is about the size of Delaware, USA. That's a butt-ton of divisions.

Quite a lot yes. And its a map of the entire Lowlands, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg. I'm kindoff for a united Lowlands, I mean the Scottish have the Highlanders united, about time we did something similar.


And to the Belgians, ofcourse we have our differences. Yet you are all easilly forgetting that those very same differences already exist in the Netherlands currently, I mean we have people with "Flemish" culture already living here and they are doing just fine.

Thats what you get when you unite Provinces/Nederlanden.

De Republiek der 7 Verenigde "Nederlanden".

Het Verenigd Koninkrijk Der "Nederlanden".

Just the word "Nederlanden" already shows unity, if a Wallonian province would have joined the Dutch Republic or a Flemish one would have joined it would still have been called De Republiek der "8" Verenigde Nederlanden. There is unity which goes back for ages, can't be overlooked.

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Quite a lot yes. And its a map of the entire Lowlands, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg. I'm kindoff for a united Lowlands, I mean the Scottish have the Highlanders united, about time we did something similar.


And to the Belgians, ofcourse we have our differences. Yet you are all easilly forgetting that those very same differences already exist in the Netherlands currently, I mean we have people with "Flemish" culture already living here and they are doing just fine.

Thats what you get when you unite Provinces/Nederlanden.

De Republiek der 7 Verenigde "Nederlanden".

Het Verenigd Koninkrijk Der "Nederlanden".

Just the word "Nederlanden" already shows unity, if a Wallonian province would have joined the Dutch Republic or a Flemish one would have joined it would still have been called De Republiek der "8" Verenigde Nederlanden. There is unity which goes back for ages, can't be overlooked.

I'm dutch and don't really care if belgium stays as it is, splits op or go to the Netherlands and France.
And of course, it's never going to happen that belgium joins the Netherlands, what about king Albert???

waarom zouden we die domme belgen er ook nog bij willen, we kunnen ze amper verstaan

Originally Posted by Skullheadhq

I'm dutch and don't really care if belgium stays as it is, splits op or go to the Netherlands and France.
And of course, it's never going to happen that belgium joins the Netherlands, what about king Albert???

waarom zouden we die domme belgen er ook nog bij willen, we kunnen ze amper verstaan

King Albert? He's a king of a fictional state, and most Flemish seem to dislike him and I don't figure we Dutch would want him either.

We kunnen die Brabanders en Limburgers ook amper verstaan en de Friesen ook en dan hebben we het nog niet over all die "Boeren" steden en dorpen die ook haast niet te verstaan zijn.

Hé, Limburgers zijn gewoon makkelijk te verstaan hoor! Arrogante Huilänjers

I'm all for an united Europe, in my opinion the only way to combat the growing power of the anti-America movement (led by Russia and China). This recession has also shown the lack of central government in the Europe.

Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus

Hé, Limburgers zijn gewoon makkelijk te verstaan hoor! Arrogante Huilänjers

I'm all for an united Europe, in my opinion the only way to combat the growing power of the anti-America movement (led by Russia and China). This recession has also shown the lack of central government in the Europe.

Huilanjers? Wat is dan Nederlander?

United Europe? Thats never going to work, and that would mean having no more say in our own country.

A thread about Belgium? And some of you are interested in the structure of our country


In a nutshell. Yes, I know, this looks like a long post, but it's the shortest I can do.

Belgium is a federal country.

We have two types of federal entities: Regions (Gewesten; Régions) and Communities (Gemeenschappen; Communautés).
The regions are competent in a whole area of things, mainly economic stuff (painting with a very broad brush here); the communities are competent in whole area of stuff, mainly to do with language, culture, etc. (again: painting with a very broad brush). However, many competences that fall in those domains are still reserved for the Federal State.

So, we have: Federal State Belgium, Regions and Communities.

We have three regions (Gewesten, Régions):

- Vlaams Gewest (Flemish Region);
- Région Wallon (Walloon Region);
- Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest/Région Bruxelles Capital (Brussels Region);


Then we have three communities (gemeenschappen, communautés):

- Vlaamse Gemeenschap (Flemish community);
- Communauté française (Francophone community);
- Duitse Gemeenschap (German community).


The territory of the Flemish Region and the Flemish Community is the same.
The territory of the Walloon Region is the same as the combined territory of the German and Walloon Community; so the "regional competences" of the German community are exercised by the Walloon Region.

"What about the "community competences" in the Brussels Region?" you ask. Those are not exercised by the Federal state. Instead, there are several "Community Commissions." When it comes to the Flemish community interests in Brussels, the competent body is the "Flemish Community Commission", when it comes to Francophone community interests in Brussels, the competent body is the "Francophone Community Commission". When it comes to bilingual matters, there's a "Combined Community Comission".


A cookie for those of you who aren't looking like this guy after reading this ->


In short: Belgium is the country of chocolate, fries and beer. We can safely assume that about 75 % of Belgian alcohol consumption can be attributed to those who have created the structure of our country

Typical Belgian leader.

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Huilanjers? Wat is dan Nederlander?

Huilanjer (Hollander) gebruiken we in Limburg als een verzamelnaam voor diegene daar boven de grote rivieren. Het is eigenlijk een soort van scheldwoord. Nu lijkt het wel alsof ik een of andere nationalistische Limburger ben, maar in werkelijkheid spreek ik nog niet eens Limburg en ben ik juist een van de meest Pro-Hollandse Limburgers. Ik vind het gewoon af en toe leuk om net te doen alsof ik een trotse Limburger ben.

So nice to speak Dutch, way more simple to make my point.

What's wrong with having 'no more say' in our country? It's not like we have that now. I just want a system similar to that of the US. Yes, I'm even all for a 'two party system'.

The system there, as I have said before, is similar to the one here in Australia. I don't see why you Europeans are babbling and complaining. (except for two party majority, 8 states and countless councils...)

(Then again, i'm used to the system)

Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus

Hé, Limburgers zijn gewoon makkelijk te verstaan hoor! Arrogante Huilänjers

I'm all for an united Europe, in my opinion the only way to combat the growing power of the anti-America movement (led by Russia and China). This recession has also shown the lack of central government in the Europe.

China and Russia aren't anti-American - they just want to be left alone. The anti-American movement is something else entirely - an international thing, which makes it even worse (harder to combat and more difficult to understand).


Furthermore, I am of the opinion that Belgium, as it were, should be divided into three parts: The Flemish region to the Netherlands, Wallonia to France, and the small rest to Germany. That way, we'd all have much less trouble.

China is not anti-american. They are ridiculously Ameri-phile. And Russia... well if ANYONE can figure out Russia well... good luck there.

Won't Belgium sink into the ocean along with the Netherlans when the icecaps melt anyways?

@Alsatia: To my understanding the Belgium political system is a whole lot different from the one in Australia. The nomer federal constitutional monarchy just indicates broad similarities when looking at how politics compare. If you want to have a more revealing perspective, you should first look at the electoral proces.

To use the same source as you have been using, I name one significant difference which makes coalition forming in the parliamentary elections in Belgium a lot more difficult: Like for example England Australia uses constituencies, which makes it a 'de facto' two-party democracy, whereas in Belgium voters choose their representatives nationwide. This results in a more plural democracy and with that there are a plenty more cultural cleavages in Belgium to make coalition forming even harder.

In order to determine to what extend the federal powers compare I would have to have a closer look at both the constitutions. My first intuition is that Belgiums constitution anchors the federal powers more strongly.

Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus

What's wrong with having 'no more say' in our country? It's not like we have that now. I just want a system similar to that of the US. Yes, I'm even all for a 'two party system'.

Ack.. you must not care about having any say at all then! :p
Any reason why you would want a political system like the US has?

I feel sorry for the Belgians.. especially now that on many fora people seem to propose to just dissolve the Belgian state in order to 'solve' it.

Do you guys think there's enough cohesion left in Belgium to counter the divisive forces and forge a new workable political coalition with enough majority to reform the state?

And does the bad performance of their football team have any role in this? :p

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

And Russia... well if ANYONE can figure out Russia well... good luck there.

Read Tolstoi! :) Not only has he written some of the heights of world literature, he also offers valuable insights in understanding Russia.

Since his time the picture has become a lot more complex though, with for example a legacy of stalinist forced migrations to bear. Russia is so much more diverse than what many people seem to realise.. even some Russians.

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

United Europe? Thats never going to work, and that would mean having no more say in our own country.

People never unite because they want to, they unite because they need to. Something, or someone always has to force it. Just because there isn't such a force on Europe, or even the Netherlands, now doesn't mean there never will be. There have been before, after all. Isn't the game we all love simulating exactly that?

I think I'm missing something here... Are we talking about Batacorii and Milnahts here?

If I say that Russia is anti-American, I actually mean that Russia is one of the leaders of the 'movement' against the US as a sole superpower. I think we have to stop that movement (or counter it), before THEY become the one superpower.

Originally Posted by scorion

Ack.. you must not care about having any say at all then! :p
Any reason why you would want a political system like the US has?

Well, I wrote an whole essay about it in Dutch, it's a bit hard to translate it all in English. It all comes down to 'I want to have my opinion represented' versus 'I want to have the best for this country'.

Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus

If I say that Russia is anti-American, I actually mean that Russia is one of the leaders of the 'movement' against the US as a sole superpower. I think we have to stop that movement (or counter it), before THEY become the one superpower.



Well, I wrote an whole essay about it in Dutch, it's a bit hard to translate it all in English. It all comes down to 'I want to have my opinion represented' versus 'I want to have the best for this country'.

Well, we wouldn't want the Netherlands and Belgium to become a sort of Texas, now do we?

waarom zou anti-amerikanisme bevochten moeten worden? Wat is er mis mee?

Originally Posted by satalexton

I think I'm missing something here... Are we talking about Batacorii and Milnahts here?

We are talking about a mix between those and the Chatii and they seem to think they are those while they are also Chatii.

Dutch are mainly Frankish(Chatii), Saxon(partly Cimbri?) and Frisian(partly Chauci?). The local tribes like the Batavians before that integrated into these main ones.

And Belgians are mainly Frankish(Chatii) and Gallo/Germanic-Romans (Belgae).

Still breathing?

People never unite because they want to, they unite because they need to. Something, or someone always has to force it. Just because there isn't such a force on Europe, or even the Netherlands, now doesn't mean there never will be. There have been before, after all. Isn't the game we all love simulating exactly that?

Wrong, they want to unite because they need to do it .

Originally Posted by athanaric

Furthermore, I am of the opinion that Belgium, as it were, should be divided into three parts: The Flemish region to the Netherlands, Wallonia to France, and the small rest to Germany. That way, we'd all have much less trouble.

Well if you put it that way. Yes we the Belgians one of the biggest financial contributers (especially when comparing size) to the EU. One of the creators of the EU and its earlier forms. A peacefull country. Yes you're right we're indeed a problem to everyone and the world. Now you put it that way, please do steal and divide up my country. I'm sorry for the trouble.

Also I'm afraid we're getting a bit backroomish...

Originally Posted by Moros

Well if you put it that way. Yes we the Belgians one of the biggest financial contributers (especially when comparing size) to the EU. One of the creators of the EU and its earlier forms. A peacefull country. Yes you're right we're indeed a problem to everyone and the world. Now you put it that way, please do steal and divide up my country. I'm sorry for the trouble.

Also I'm afraid we're getting a bit backroomish...

Geez Moros, you shouldn't take that too seriously. Anyway, I wasn't talking about any unwarranted Belgian aggression (not in real life, that is; this rebel army that just popped up in my ongoing campaign, composed of nothing but Milnaht, Remi horsemen and Batacorii, OTOH, is very annoying...).

Originally Posted by Moros

<====

Wait what? You live like 10 km from my place. Im from Gellik :D.
And you're helping to develop EB II?

OMFG!! You live practically next to a celebrity!!!

so.... am i to assume that Moros usually tatoo himself with woad, and uses a large Thueros and a high-lethality longsword?

Originally Posted by satalexton

so.... am i to assume that Moros usually tatoo himself with woad, and uses a large Thueros and a high-lethality longsword?

Depends, if he is Flemish he is more likely to have wild hair growing, a large Thureos and a spear, and this necklace he can't remove as long as he hasn't killed anyone, the same with this oversized beard.

If he's Wallonian, then you're most likely right.

then where are teh remi horsemen?

Moros, i give you that balloon if you legitimately remove that necklace of yours

Originally Posted by satalexton

then where are teh remi horsemen?

I don't know; were the Remi even "Belgian"? I was always under the impression that they were a Gallic tribe but then again I don't really have a clue how to seperate "Gallic" from "Belgian". Assuming that is a legitimate distinction.