No reforms at all?

**ziegenpeter** · 08-04-2009, 16:13

Hi everyone!I was wondering why the reforms concerning units arent abandoned at all?
EB pretends to just give the status quo of 272BC, after that its no real history anymore. And if I play a faction that didnt survive/expand (= no or minor reforms) that much, its a big penalty because there maybe WOULD have been reforms after all if this faction had been more succesfull. Plus this keeps some unit slots free.
Maybe you just increase the MIC building time and distribute the additional units - due to the plus of slots - among them to simulate the military devellopment of a faction.

**A Very Super Market** · 08-04-2009, 17:32

But.... all of them get some sort of reform.

**athanaric** · 08-04-2009, 17:39

Nah... the reform units are a major fun factor int this game and often the biggest reason why I play a certain faction. Plus it's very difficult (not to mention questionable) to create "what-might-have-been-if" units.

**Andy1984** · 08-04-2009, 18:29

Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

But.... all of them get some sort of reform.

Some factions have no reforms at all I believe: Saba, Pontus, Epeiros and perhaps one I forgot (Getai?). It would be nice to have reformed would-be units, but it would be nicer to have more regional units. If there are extra major reforms to be implemented, I'd prefer to have reforms concerning government levels. Right now: most of these don't change, whatever you do. The only exceptions are the Romani and Hayasdan. Maybe if you control a certain region long enough, a higher government level could be unlocked because said territory is now considered your own?

kind regards,

Andy

**ziegenpeter** · 08-04-2009, 19:13

I also like reforms but I think they are imba or you have to make up some for every faction. But this would be crappy for unit reforms. I dont like the idea of 'what if' units, for that I can also play warcraft. So reforms yes but only for traits/governments/etc. and please for all factions.

**paramedicguyer** · 08-04-2009, 19:42

Theoretically I don't think there is actually a limit on which factions have reforms or how many, but there is a limit on the number of units (500 or 499 for M2TW I believe). This factor actually limits the "need" of reforms the way I see it. Additionally, historically speaking, most, actually if not all of the end game factions were completely destroyed or assimilated into Rome. Also remember history is written by the victors (hence why a rather detailed history of carhtage is impossible). There is a wealth of information regarding the romans and hellenes, but less regarding the more barbaric factions thus it would be improper to inroduce reforms and units based heavily on guess, speculation or imagination.

**Watchman** · 08-04-2009, 20:21

Generally it just plain works out better - and with fewer problems - to simply go with the realistic enough assumption that most factions taking over lands outside their "core areas" will just recruit the natives to fight for them according to their "national" local traditions. Which is how it worked IRL for the most part - before the active consolidation of their holdings into a formal empire and the slow romanisation process, the Romans too tended to rely quite a bit on client-kings and local warriors in the more far-flung reaches of their realm. Similarly, aside from the actual military colonies (which in a slightly different form had been around already under the Achaemenids) and Hellenised "core" regions the Successors drew quite heavily on their Iranian, Egyptian, Indian and whatever subjects for soldiery, just to give a few examples.

**ziegenpeter** · 08-04-2009, 20:29

Originally Posted by paramedicguyer

There is a wealth of information regarding the romans and hellenes, but less regarding the more barbaric factions thus it would be improper to inroduce reforms and units based heavily on guess, speculation or imagination.

Thats what I mean. Again, I would rather use the 500 unit slots from the beginning and have other kind of reforms for ALL the faction as to leave it as it is.

Originally Posted by Watchman

Generally it just plain works out better - and with fewer problems - to simply go with the realistic enough assumption that most factions taking over lands outside their "core areas" will just recruit the natives to fight for them according to their "national" local traditions.

Agree, maybe you should get more Elite regionals after a while (meaning the elites are willing to follow you, but in their fashion of fighting), so its less pita to hold these regions.