Spartan Shoes/Boots?

**Phalanx300** · 08-13-2009, 14:41

Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

I'm not denying that. But it is still a point that you, in your opening post, had taken too far.

Sparta is all about convervatism, which made them a very stable nation as well.

**Watchman** · 08-13-2009, 17:40

"Stable" would be pretty relative in that context, IIRC some of the TWC discussions on the topic. Helot trouble, anyone ? Or the occasional lolroyaldrama, such as that preceding Leonidas' ascension to kingship ?

**Phalanx300** · 08-13-2009, 17:59

Originally Posted by Watchman

"Stable" would be pretty relative in that context, IIRC some of the TWC discussions on the topic. Helot trouble, anyone ? Or the occasional lolroyaldrama, such as that preceding Leonidas' ascension to kingship ?

When compared to other nations it definately was stable and continious.

The Helots, that would only relate to the Messenian Helots as the Lakonian Helots found themselves Lakonians. And the Spartans treated them well like they did the Lakonian Helots before and then they massively rebelled which ment the second Messenian war and after that the Spartans started their brutal oppresion as revenge.

A royal drama? It was hardly a drama which put the entire state in crisis.

**antisocialmunky** · 08-14-2009, 01:30

Resistence to change is a two edge sword. It only works as long as conditions don't change and it makes you hopeless when you do try to change.

See Agis IV and Cleomenes III.

**Phalanx300** · 08-14-2009, 15:49

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Resistence to change is a two edge sword. It only works as long as conditions don't change and it makes you hopeless when you do try to change.

See Agis IV and Cleomenes III.

Well it only makes you hopeless when you face a changed army which structure is superior. When Cleomenes was finally able to make his reforms Sparta quickly became the leading state in the Peloponessos again which eventually led to Makedonia intervering.

In his campaign I like the fact that the Acheans had a 3 times bigger army at one point but thought they would be no match for the Spartans.

When the Spartans adopted the Macedonian Phalanx they excelled at it, seeing they hold their own against Makedonian pikemen who were 32 ranks deep instead of the 16 deep of the Spartans.

And of the 6000 Spartans only 200 survived, really the last true battle of Sparta. Afterwards it just went downwards with Tyrants.