Twilight and Jonas Brothers: A rant

[caravel]

What is this Jonas Brothers?

[Caius]

Those guys can't beat the 80's. Not worthy talking about them.

[Veho Nex]

I give my friends crap for being JB and TW crazy.




















Who the ever heard of a glittery Vampire? Not cool.... Kills vampires for me. THANKS A LOT TWILIGHT!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Any movie that is hugely successful is a good movie, whether you like it or not. Same with bands.

-edit-
Since I'm detecting a bit of intellectual snobbery in this thread and it's a pet peeve of mine I'll post this comparison:

Let's get retarded--black eyed peas
vs.
Beethoven's 5th symphony

Now ask yourself, which is more intellectual? Which has more meaning? Your instinct may be to say the Beethoven but any objective look at the two songs shows that the "let's get retarded" is infinitely more intellectual. The 5th symphony is a visceral experience while the black eyed peas song has a clearly expressed message about life. Remember that the next time you hear someone dissing something popular as idiotic. Odds are they think highly of Beethoven's fifth and van gogh's pictures of flowers, neither of which are intellectual in the slightest. It's merely a matter of taste, and being snobby about it is as silly as claiming coke and pepsi are for the moronic masses and that smart people drink dr pepper.

[Motep]

Go Kojiro!

Anyways, I dont care for either one of them, though I see how people do. I cant really take this further, for my girlfriend is across the room and she likes twilight and if this gets into her vision it will be seen as something tantamount to heresy.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
If this Twillight you're talking about the same as the miniseries recently aired on the local NBC clone, then it's total heresy. A vampire going around under noon sun with raybands?

Apparently it's a heavy bastardization of World of Darkness, on which Vampire Bloodlines was based. Having a vampire endure sunlight is the most unacceptable heresy, no blasphemy!

I did watch it though, thanks to the blonde chick.
.

[A Very Super Market]

Wasn't sunlight just an annoyance to the original Dracula?

[Lord Winter]

Any movie that is hugely successful is a good movie, whether you like it or not. Same with bands.

-edit-
Since I'm detecting a bit of intellectual snobbery in this thread and it's a pet peeve of mine I'll post this comparison:

Let's get retarded--black eyed peas
vs.
Beethoven's 5th symphony

Now ask yourself, which is more intellectual? Which has more meaning? Your instinct may be to say the Beethoven but any objective look at the two songs shows that the "let's get retarded" is infinitely more intellectual. The 5th symphony is a visceral experience while the black eyed peas song has a clearly expressed message about life. Remember that the next time you hear someone dissing something popular as idiotic. Odds are they think highly of Beethoven's fifth and van gogh's pictures of flowers, neither of which are intellectual in the slightest. It's merely a matter of taste, and being snobby about it is as silly as claiming coke and pepsi are for the moronic masses and that smart people drink dr pepper.

Yes and no. Classical music doesn't have a monopoly on music but I wouldn't call "Let's Get Retarded" deeper. A message does not have to expressed in lyrics, or even be a concrete thing. Saying that one piece of music is better because it has lyrics, going back to your soda metaphor, is like saying coke is better then pepsi just because coke has better content on it's label. People who say that the 5th symphony is deeper point to the greater depth of composition, direction of the music and emotion built in it. It is not any less deep because it doesn't hit the listener over the head with its message.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

.
If this Twillight you're talking about the same as the miniseries recently aired on the local NBC clone, then it's total heresy. A vampire going around under noon sun with raybands?

Apparently it's a heavy bastardization of World of Darkness, on which Vampire Bloodlines was based. Having a vampire endure sunlight is the most unacceptable heresy, no blasphemy!

I did watch it though, thanks to the blonde chick.
.

Blade had vampires in sunlight too. Sunscreen with a high spf, makes sense.

Yes and no. Classical music doesn't have a monopoly on music but I wouldn't call "Let's Get Retarded" deeper. A message does not have to expressed in lyrics, or even be a concrete thing. Saying that one piece of music is better because it has lyrics, going back to your soda metaphor, is like saying coke is better then pepsi just because coke has better content on it's label. People who say that the 5th symphony is deeper point to the greater depth of composition, direction of the music and emotion built in it. It is not any less deep because it doesn't hit the listener over the head with its message.

What you get out of the 5th symphony is something I would vaguely call "listening pleasure". Hard to pin down exactly. You get the same from "let's get retarded" (or maybe not, and maybe you don't like either of them). Could you express the message of the 5th symphony? I don't believe there is one. How about the message of this:



Of course, you might subscribe to the school of thought that describes a modern art "black square" painting as symbolizing the triumph of the old over the new, of eastern thinking over western thinking blah blah, but I think we can agree that that's baloney. The painting here is simply nice to look at. I don't care for messages in my music personally, just pointed that out to knock people off their intellectual high horse.

Many people just don't like popular music or movies--but the effort to divide all art into "high art" and "low art" is as silly as being elitist about what soda you drink. And of course, people are snobby about the beer they drink which isn't far off...

Of course the irony is that the people who are the biggest intellectual snobs are the ones who would benefit the most from "disconnecting from all intellect and letting the rhythm affect" them.

[Reverend Joe]

@Sasaki, I think you're oversimplifying the issue here. I think you are overlooking the fact that good art does not automatically bring fame.

Example: Scott H. Biram. Even on an eye-to-eye level with the Black Eyed Peas, he's much better: his lyrics are much better-written and his message is more universal. The reason he is not famous is because he doesn't fit into the zeitgeist. He doesn't do pop, he does honest-to-god country, and even in the Country music circuit that isn't very popular. Popular songs or movies are only good in the sense that they are geared to appeal to the sound or image that has the most appeal at the moment. That's the difference between what is "truly" good and what isn't: how long it can hold up, and how universal its appeal. I do agree with you that Beethoven is not the same thing as modern music, and that it is the product of some snobbery, becuase you have to learn what to appreciate before you can truly appreciate it, namely the extraordinary complexity involved in creating classical music. A better example of truly good music would be traditional folk music, which, although it has not gotten the historical attention of classical music, has proven its worth by its long and pervasive history, even if it does change gradually over time.

Another example: compare the Black Eyed Peas to the Beatles or Elvis Presley. I hate both of them with a passion, but you have to admit that their continued appeal after so many decades is a sign that they struck a certain chord. If the Black Eyed Peas last as long, then they can be judged good -- but I would be surprised if they did.

[Lord Winter]

Blade had vampires in sunlight too. Sunscreen with a high spf, makes sense.



What you get out of the 5th symphony is something I would vaguely call "listening pleasure". Hard to pin down exactly. You get the same from "let's get retarded" (or maybe not, and maybe you don't like either of them). Could you express the message of the 5th symphony? I don't believe there is one. How about the message of this:



Of course, you might subscribe to the school of thought that describes a modern art "black square" painting as symbolizing the triumph of the old over the new, of eastern thinking over western thinking blah blah, but I think we can agree that that's baloney. The painting here is simply nice to look at. I don't care for messages in my music personally, just pointed that out to knock people off their intellectual high horse.

Many people just don't like popular music or movies--but the effort to divide all art into "high art" and "low art" is as silly as being elitist about what soda you drink. And of course, people are snobby about the beer they drink which isn't far off...

Of course the irony is that the people who are the biggest intellectual snobs are the ones who would benefit the most from "disconnecting from all intellect and letting the rhythm affect" them.

The point is that art does not need a concrete message. Personally I think of good artful music as an expression of some part of the human spirit. The message of music is much harder to describe then other forms of art because of this. It is impossible to boil down emotion to simple words. Isn't that why we turn to music to the first place. Now I agree, you can enjoy music without it being a profound work of art but music which does reach this ideal is incomparable to music which doesn't even attempt it.

I don't think you can discount classical music as the result of generations of pretentious snobs. Sure they're are many purist who will tell you how it is the only valid form of music. I think we can agree that they're narrow minded snobs. But, you have to at least respect something which has lasted 100's of years. It doesn't mean you have to like it or that it's better then modern music, but give classical it's due.


I agree with you on Folk Reverend Joe. Great genre of music.