Cavalry charges

[helenos aiakides]

I was thinking about this when i was playing, if cavalry charge in close formation, wouldn't the cavalry at the front get crushede into paste between a block of infantry and the rest of the cavalry?

[IrishHitman]

No, just the infantry get crushed...
The cav pushes them back.

[helenos aiakides]

Im talking about real life, because if cavalry charged in close formation wouldn't the front ranks get crushed

[abou]

The thing is, horses don't really stop moving when stampeding. Even a moderate sized horse of the day weighs several hundred kilos. Essentially, the horse doesn't stop: you move.

[A Very Super Market]

A matter of a horse and man (Presumably with a deal of armour as well) weighing more than just a man. If a horse could charge into a solid formation of lightly equipped soldiers, it would still wreak havoc because of all the force involved. The reason they don't is because they don't want to charge into something that looks dangerous.

[Aemilius Paulus]

The thing is, horses don't really stop moving when stampeding. Even a moderate sized horse of the day weighs several hundred kilos.

Really? Because I read horses will not walk on humans, hence the Ghandi's "everyone lie down" to stop the charging British cavalry sent to disperse him. How true is this? What of the highly trained horses - are they an exception?

And can a horse really charge in a wall of pikes, with heavy barding on it? I thought they had another instinct against that, although I have read accounts that disprove it as well.

[Watchman]

Horses hate the idea of bad footing and colliding with obstacles at speed. Comes from the critters' basic survival mechanism being Running Away Really Fast - they don't want to compromise that, obviously.

To cut a few corners, there's roughly two possible alternative results for a cavalry charge against close-order foot. Either the infantry wavers, and the horses ram the resulting gaps in the line and the footsloggers in all likelihood get ripped apart. Or they hold steady, and the horses hit the brakes rather than slam into such an obstacle and the cavalry are probably in for some trouble.

Which is why most cavalry has preferred hit-and-run "nibbling" to gradually weaken the line, flank attacks, and in the case of at least some cataphracts, walking into contact. Horses may not want to *run* into solid obstacles, but can be convinced to push against them at safer speeds.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Hmm, I see, thanks for the clarification

[dejan07]

Don't forget the use of horse eye harness!

They have been explicitly made for the horse charges so that horse doesn't see much where it is charging.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Don't forget the use of horse eye harness!

Shoot, right you may be - why did I not think of that before? But how willing is the horse to gallop with that? Eye harnesses were used to turn the animals, so leaving both on would usually cause the animal to stop unless it was conditioned.

[Azathoth]

I just wanted to ask a quick, somewhat related question - is it possible to give cavalry the phalanx?

[Ibrahim]

I just wanted to ask a quick, somewhat related question - is it possible to give cavalry the phalanx?

doubt it.

[A Very Super Market]

..... Cavalry and infantry are distinct in the engine, I'm certain. You could model, animate, and skin a cavalry unit, and tag it as infantry or something, but it wouldn't increase the speed, if that's what you're trying to do.

[Cute Wolf]

I just wanted to ask a quick, somewhat related question - is it possible to give cavalry the phalanx?

If u can do this, I suppose we will get a historically really easy bulldozers, since we only need to give Hetairoi Phalanx formation and let them run directly in the enemies' center. Oh yeah, and don't forget Sarissas are 6 metre's long.

[Azathoth]

..... Cavalry and infantry are distinct in the engine, I'm certain. You could model, animate, and skin a cavalry unit, and tag it as infantry or something, but it wouldn't increase the speed, if that's what you're trying to do.

I was just wondering - aesthetic purposes, mostly. As in, cavalry advancing as a pike phalanx into a formation of infantry.

[antisocialmunky]

I think I suggested some sort of shield wall for cavalry for EBII as wedge is completely and absolutely useless.

[Watchman]

Don't forget the use of horse eye harness!

They have been explicitly made for the horse charges so that horse doesn't see much where it is charging.

And AFAIK were only ever used on the teams of scythed chariots, and in jousting (where there was then a boom separating them, to avoid accidental - or not-so-accidental - collisions). For pretty much any kind of real combat use you Do Not Want to remove the animal's self-steering and situational awareness capabilities - case in point, simply maintaining its position respective other horses in the squadron without accidentally bumping into them.

[satalexton]

cant u just let the guy do the steering?

[A Very Super Market]

The guy is busy stabbing people in the face. Also, the rider has no way of controlling the horses gait. If you were blindfolded and walking on your heel, stepping on a rock would make you trip, no?

[Watchman]

Exactly. The self-steering abilitites of the horse, nevermind now its more or less "built in" herd-animal ability to orient itself in large rather closely packed groups of its ilk, are exactly what makes it an useful battle mount. There's a reason blind horses got turned into sausage you know.