Fighting the Arche Seleukia

**Bumblebee** · 08-06-2009, 02:04

Originally posted over at twcenter, but posting this here as well to get a good range of thoughts on it.

So I started a campaign as the Koinon Hellenon, a challenge to begin with! But with some clever maneuvering and a boatload of luck, I've managed to gain control of the Greek peninsula from Thermon and Demetrias on south and even gained a good amount of ground in Mesopotamia. How that happened was actually a bit of random chance (as far as I know

) as Pelogram suddenly became my property, thrusting me into a war with Arche Seleukia.

Things are at kind of a standstill at the moment with Seleukia relentlessly sieging Ipsos turn after turn of me beating them away and most of my battles end up with equal casualties on either side. At the moment I'm mustering mixed forces of Classic Hoplites, Toxotai archers, Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers, a unit of the Hellenic Distinguished Hoplites (the heavy infantry one), and a couple of Greek Medium Cavalry units. It seems that most of the damage is being done by the Phalanx that they're fielding.

I've had pretty good luck with the Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers keeping the phalanxes busy and let the Toxotai hammer away while my other forces deal with the rest of the Seleukian army, but it comes back down to old-fashioned close-quarters combat when they run out of ammunition.

Is there a better way of dealing with Arche Seleukia? Am I going to have to be going heavy on Skirmisher/Archer units to beat the phalanx attrition?

Campaign is H/H

**king of thracia** · 08-06-2009, 02:11

Coordinated simultaneous cavalry charges on isolated phalanxes. Expand northward to the bosphorus and grab horse archers. They'll shoot until they're out and THEN charge! All-in-one

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 08-06-2009, 02:20

Well, my deep regrets to you sir. Fighting the AS as the KH is a sysiphos' task. And the fact that you chose H as your battle difficulty makes it even worse.

A sound choice against phalanxes are phalanxes of better quality, which you have no access to. Another option is phalanxes on a higher ground than the opposing phalanx, and that's what you should do. Take your Greek phalanx (March of Time you have I guess, when not, hire the mercenary variant) and position it on a hill, the steeper the better. Their Argyraspides and Klerouchoi will brainlessly throw themselves upon your sarissai. Make sure you have hired some pretty good cavalry (Thraikioi Prodromoi, Hippeis Xystophoroi and Misthophoroi Hippeis Thessalikoi - forget the Greek Hippeis, any cavalry that uses their spear overhand is a waste of money in that regard) and charge the enemy into their back. The archers and slinger you deploy behind the phalanx even higher on that hill, height drastically auments their kill ratio.

Well, you might have noticed that I play Makedonia mostly.

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 08-06-2009, 02:32

Don't waste your time with standard Toxotai. Hire Cretans and Bosphorans if you can. Otherwise, forget archers and concentrate on more Peltasts who can really rip into the sides of AS formations. Theuroperoi also work well in this regard and can hold off some of the nastier cavalry they can throw your way.

**Bumblebee** · 08-06-2009, 02:35

Well, my deep regrets to you sir. Fighting the AS as the KH is a sysiphos' task. And the fact that you chose H as your battle difficulty makes it even worse.

I'll take that to mean that victory will be that much sweeter

Anyway, your suggestion then Centurio is to fight a wall with a wall until my pick axe is available?

**satalexton** · 08-06-2009, 03:05

Thorakitai mixed with phalangitai works wonders, the idea is to make them lose cohesion while holding them in place...After that, charge each 'isolated' moshpit with cavalry to rout them.

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 08-06-2009, 03:09

I'm not sure what you mean with "pick-axe".

Even when you get your own Phalangitai version: from what I've heard they would be no match for the Seleukides, so if you chose phalanx, then make sure you're on a hill. You have great heavy infantry as KH, but it's the combination of all weapons that makes the difference.

**Bumblebee** · 08-06-2009, 04:06

Pick Axe in reference to other elements of my force that would flank the opposing phalanx, that is when they're not mixing it up with other Seleukian elements.

**HopAlongBunny** · 08-06-2009, 08:47

Originally Posted by Bumblebee

Anyway, your suggestion then Centurio is to fight a wall with a wall until my pick axe is available?

That's pretty much the only option. You might find slings more effective that bows; esp. from the flank or rear...but then there is the problem of "friendly fire" :p

Whatever you use to pin is going to take losses; can be "somewhat" minimized by "halt"/"guard" on contact. Heavy cav is preferred for the "hammer" but all melee tends to get ugly at higher difficulties.

Enjoy

**Andy1984** · 08-06-2009, 14:33

And definitly make sure you have at least one unit of tindanotae for scaring-purposes.

About archers in the open (and even more so in a city battle without stone walls): they're highly inefficient against phalanxes, because of the big shields the latter carry. After you've killed their general, I'd try to storm isolated phalangites from several sides with hoplitai, hoping for mass routs. This should still be possible with H battle difficulty.

good luck,

Andy

**Mikhail Mengsk** · 08-06-2009, 20:38

About strategy, you should build a STRONG army and land it in Syria. Take its main cities, sack them and destroy all the buildings. Repeat that every time you can, wearing down its economy. If you take Babylonia and Seleukia you have taken down a good part of their turn income.