Against 4tpy...

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

4tpy is the best for expansion, don t forgot the many turns for take a full control of region(barracks, administration, law building).
I think with less tpy the game isn t fun.
I hope for more tpy, maybe 6.

[Parkev]

I just looked up few things I'd written down a while ago when I was thinking about turns per year, I'm sure the EB team have done a considerably more in depth analysis (a few posts from Foot some months ago suggested so).

Now if my Pythagoras theorem is anything to go by a grid square in EB 1 is about 20km wide (I think I got show_cursorstat of Gibraltar and one of the pointy bits in the Persian Gulf and compared to Google Earth). Now the most I can crank out of a General in spring on paved roads is 14 tiles, the average is about 12.

So that gives 20 * 14 = 280 km per turn.

From this site http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/...opics/army.htm

Marching an army to its destination took much longer, even when depots of food and water were available. On his way to Megiddo Thutmose III crossed the Sinai Desert from Tharu on the eastern border of Egypt to the closest major Canaanite town, Gaza, a distance of about 200 km in 9 days [8], at a speed of about 22 km per day.
His progress through Canaan was much slower, about 10 km per day [8], probably mostly due to the fact that in ancient times armies in enemy territory generally provisioned themselves by looting the countryside which slowed down their advance.

Which references this site http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/...of_megiddo.htm , which is a little out of the time frame (only 1200 years), but I think rough figures will suffice.

So 10 * 90 = 900 km per turn.

So there's is about a factor of 3 discrepancy, and even if those numbers are out by 50%, in the right direction, we only just get back to parity. Since increasing movement points effectively breaks the game, we're looking at 8-12 turns per year.

Immediate problems that occur:
1. how is anyone ever going to reach the end date?
2. easier to blitz (human and AI)
3. far bit of recoding
4. time spent at end turns would increase as a proportion of game time

To address these:
1. Who does anyway? Moreover, EB is a historical simulation of the world at 272 BC, the further we go down history the thinner the conjectures and assumptions as far as reforms will be (as reasonable as they are), therefore EB would be "more historically correct" in some regards.
2. Nothing some fairly severe winter/summer movement penalties won't fix, not to mention all the opportunities as far as recruitment pools and such
3. But what better time when porting to a new engine
4. Small price to pay

Personally, I'd prefer to play 20 years of a 12 tpy game than 60 years of a 4tpy, much more intense role play in terms of character development and one could actually exercise a military campaign in one summer season (train a decent amount of levies in the spring, fight a few battles, get home before winter).

But, as always the BIG but is; could the AI handle it? Or would the AI be forced to act in a way that would cripple it?

Just my Sunday afternoon musings.

EDIT: This wasn't the post I remembered but it's got the right gist to it

To change movement speed you need to edit descr_character.txt

The reason speed is much slower than the distances that could be traversed in 3 months is for gameplay reasons. When dealing with turn based strategy, increasing movement seriously damages any potential strategies as you and the ai have no chance to react to anyone's movements. Staging an interception for an enemy army is thus impossible because he would already have reached your walls before you had a chance to stop him. We have not changed movement values from vanilla.

Maintaining a standing army or navy was prohibitably expensive if they are not on campaign. This is not entirely fair as of course a campaigning army could be raised, if needs were high, in a far shorter period of time then we can represent in game (though EBII will change some of these problems). If you aren't on an active campaign, either for conquest or riches, then maintaining an army makes for poor fiscal management. Large Empires of course need and can sustain large standing armies, but smaller kingdoms cannot do so.

Roads, for example, don't actually represent roads in any particular sense, but rather represent a road network and all that entails. For example the Rome province starts with simple roads, whereas, of course there were some quite large paved road systems there, however these paved road systems were not the major road systems and did not connect the entire province together. The same occurs with farms, ports, military, etc. Basic farming doesn't represent the actual existence of farms in a province, but rather the trade network that allows for a concentrated and centralised distribution of produce to the benefit of the entire province.

Foot

More edit: I didn't find what I was looking for but did find a post by Foot from January 2007 advocating 0 turn recruitment for levies, or a massive siege defence script. Seems it's happened to all of us.

[Atraphoenix]

@Parkev
At first I tried to change EBBS with monthly system, 11 summer 1 winter but as you know we have more than 1100 turns in EB, many players are already blitzers. you can conquer whole map less than 500 turns if I add monthly turns that means 1100 x 3 = 3300 turns and a bit more.
To reflect the realism I have changed movement points and it works on RTW, BI, Alex , EB even on Alexander EB.
On the other hand as we have no chance to increase the numbers of the cities even in Kingdoms, I prefer to use second solution I still play Eb with it.

The Persian Royal Road was an ancient highway reorganized and rebuilt by the Persian king Darius I of the Achaemenid Empire in the 5th century BC. Darius built the road to facilitate rapid communication throughout his very large empire from Susa to Sardis: "centralized rule is the victim of time and distance". Robin Lane Fox has remarked in this context.[1] Mounted couriers could travel 1,677 miles (2,699 km) in seven days; the journey from Susa to Sardis took ninety days on foot. The Greek historian Herodotus wrote, "There is nothing in the world that travels faster than these Persian couriers." Herodotus' praise for these messengers—"Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor darkness of night prevents these couriers from completing their designated stages with utmost speed."—is the inspiration for the unofficial motto of the United States Postal Service.[2]

I have opted realism and I prefer it to game playabilty. But even I did not dare to increase movement points so as to travel from susa to sardis just in 1 Turn....
On my campaigns with Realist movement mods I find AI more agressive against me so it does not take 3 YEARS for AS to send reinforcements from Seleukeia to Northern Border (Margiane) even I find 9 mounts (3 turns) unrealistic.
so I have not had any problem on increasing movement point though I did not tested the possible maximum limit.

in my signature you can see my mod's screenshot (The realist Movement Mod).

P.S. I support levies should be in 0 recruitment but I had already got tired of modding EB, so I am waiting for EB2....
But I hate road-runner traits for generals (current EB system is fine) so I do not wanna try more traits to increase the movement points.

MONTHLY TURNS OR INCREASED MOVEMENTS,
I wish we had another solutions.....
(AFAIK enlarging map twice is meaningless)

[Atraphoenix]

here a screenies from my mod test :

the value :

starting_action_points 260

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Mister V]

I don't see the point of having 2tpy. We won't have the time to enjoy the game then. 4tpy means more time and opportunities for the AI, too.
I do hope that in EB2 we can mod the Imperial reforms to happen just a bit earlier, because I've had the patience to do them only once (and I didn't even move to the Middle East then). Usually I get bored before 150BC even without conquering a lot, mostly because of stack spam and constant autoresolves and retraining management.

[lobf]

I've been thinking about this idea for a while now. I have also noticed that people tend to have huge empires by 220BC, and usually end their games by 120 or sooner. 2tpy means that people will expand their empires in a more historical manner (since this game is all about blitzing... how fun is it to press "end turn" over and over again for several game years?) and perhaps play their games out to the end of the time limit.

It's not like anyone really needs 4 turns per year. Has anyone ever come close to running out of time in EB?

[Atraphoenix]

mate we have 2 types of EB Players mainly; blitzers, role players...
For example I am an early blitzer supporter to survive, (just think nomads)
then I role play after I have luxury to lose one of my army.

-you do not have to win every battle, defeats are fine.
-I even provoke rebellions after my faction leader dies, mostly increasing the taxes to maximum and leaving one unit for garrison.

-most players do not defeats, but there is no fun just win, win,win, conquer, raze cities , destroy factions....

-I am quite happy to role play unsuccessful campaigns, egoist generals' suicidal battles on impossible lands...

-so it is hardly to describe what is the use of having 4py.

- I still cannot understand what is the fun of conquering whole map, I am quite happy to stop after I have conquered 1 3rd of the map. later I role play as super power, I make my neighbours my vassal,
and I protect them from expansionist factions like Carthage, Ptolemy, Rome.

- I like role playing Xerxes I's campaign again and of course I retreat to Asia Minor after I suffer heavy defeat.

So we cannot judge peoples style of play, I never allow the destruction of a faction, even AS my eternal enemy is rested in Cyprus and their kings dies of boozing and womanizing.
So some may support 2TP, some 4TPY, I support 12TPY and 0 recruitment for levies and 2 turn recruitment for elites rest 1.

if you do not like the style of EB team has no word againt to change it even to release them for others.

our aim is jut having fun, I like having fun by modding it according to my perpective..


Regards

Atra