I...Agree with the French

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm

Something deep inside when Western Chivalric-influenced psyche is offended by the Burkka. A woman does not need to hide her shape and face to be safe from me, or another man when I am around.

I fully support this French policy in general, the only thing I don't like is that we didn't come up with it first.

[Hooahguy]

ignore

[Don Corleone]

Burkhas and hijabs worn in the West aren't about modesty, they're a statement.

According to the women that wear them, they're making a statement on the superiority of the Islamic culture, and hoping to promote a migration towards it in their new Western home

[a completely inoffensive name]

Burkhas and hijabs worn in the West aren't about modesty, they're a statement.

According to the women that wear them, they're making a statement on the superiority of the Islamic culture, and hoping to promote a migration towards it in their new Western home

[citation needed]

[Jolt]

[citation needed]

Should have used this image. Now that you're with the big boys, you need to learn the proper ways to influence people into your side, whatever that may be. Funny images are a way to do that. : D

On-topic, indeed I also believe the Western Chivalry might have influenced us, along with the dose of colonialism and Imperial European superiority which showed that our culture is superior and anything that conflicts with it is by default, bad/wrong.

[AlexanderSextus]

As a yankee i must continue our historical tradition of siding with the french on this one...

[Fragony]

There is no need to ban the burka, you have to be recognisable on the street, current laws are fine

finger -> face MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA shambling sleepingbag

disrespect is key.

[Zim]

Burkinis are pretty silly (well, they're a clever adaptation for those feeling obliged to follow a pretty silly rule anyway) but it seems odd to have a pool ban a type of clothing designed for swimming in. I suppose if they thought they'd lose a lot of business they wouldn't do it. Still odd.

It is kind of funny to see a French pool keeping people out for wearing too much, here it'd likely be for wearing too little (possibly with the same argument of the clothing, or lack thereof, being degrading to women).

As far as the government appointing 32 legislators to spend six months trying to find ways to limit the use of the Burkha....that's interesting. I guess it keeps them from causing the kind of trouble they might in their normal duties, although I'm sure they'll find a way to cause trouble with their current assignment.

[Kralizec]

I despise islamic dress code, but part of me is uncomfortable with banning them. Strictly speaking they don't harm anyone.

Emerainville Mayor Alain Kelyor said "all this has nothing to do with Islam", adding that the swimsuit was "not an Islamic swimsuit" and that "that type of suit does not exist in the Koran".

I always think it's odd when people do this. You never hear of protestants lecturing catholics on how to venerate saints, or McDonalds refusing to allow jews inside because they're not allowed to eat there according to their religion...

Somebody should try entering a French pool in a diving suit to see if anyone makes a complaint about it.

[InsaneApache]

Is Burka short for Berkshire Hunt?

[miotas]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm

Something deep inside when Western Chivalric-influenced psyche is offended by the Burkka. A woman does not need to hide her shape and face to be safe from me, or another man when I am around.

I fully support this French policy in general, the only thing I don't like is that we didn't come up with it first.

Surely by telling her what to wear you are patronising her, how does that fit into chivalric thinking? Let them where what they want, why does anyone care what they wear? Or are we still in the childish "all towel heads are terrorists" stage?

[Idaho]

Foreign people look and act different and native people don't like it.

A real scoop this one

[Fragony]

Sure enough but the burkha should be banned, I don't care for the justification their petty beliefs don't offend me, but the burkha is a security-risk pure and simple, you can't see who is under it. As for the rest, couldn't care less.

[Idaho]

I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

Howabout false mostaches?

[Beefy187]

Just think of it as fashion.
I see nothing wrong if they want to wear them.

[rory_20_uk]

Last time I read the Koran it stated women need to cover their breasts. I could not see the bit that said hair.

Assuming that men have no control over their urges, why is it that women suffer in requiring a constant bodyguard and wearing such horrible clothes? Shouldn't men be forced to wear chastity belts and anything else that causes them to all be such cause of concern?

Just like wearing a bikini isn't culturally acceptable on the beaches of Saudi Arabia, these things shouldn't be acceptable over here. Of course, we're not as barbaric to flog the offenders.

[Fragony]

Shouldn't men be forced to wear chastity belts and anything else that causes them to all be such cause of concern?

How about this,



Burkha for men


I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

Howabout false mostaches?

Is there a place where a lot of people wear masks, allowing just about any trafficking? A criminal or terrorist can be completely invisible.
__________________

[Hosakawa Tito]

I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

Howabout false mostaches?

OMG, Halloween will be next.

[Andres]

I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

Howabout false mostaches?

OMG, Halloween will be next.

Nobody said that, that's just silly and avoiding the real issue.

Let's call a spade a spade. It's not about 'safety' or "hygiene'.

No, burka's should be disallowed because they are denigrating for the women wearing them. It's a clothing designed to make women unrecognisable objects and to mark them as inferior beings. Away with the burka, it's a disgrace.

[Fragony]

OMG, Halloween will be next.

Halloween is once a year. These burkhas all look the same and they are a common view(are they? have never seen one), I could organise the greatest heist in history right under your noses, or worse.

[miotas]

What gives you the right to determine what a person can wear? We aren't dealing with 5 year olds here, these are grown women who should be able to decide what they want to wear. Treating them like little kids and telling them how to get dressed is denigrating.

[rory_20_uk]

It is alien to our society.

People should come to the country to meld with the society, not do what they or their ancestors did in their own.

If they don't like it - leave.

[Meneldil]

What gives you the right to determine what a person can wear? We aren't dealing with 5 year olds here, these are grown women who should be able to decide what they want to wear. Treating them like little kids and telling them how to get dressed is denigrating.

I don't know what gives anyone a right to tell what a person can wear, but french laws surely can tell what a person cannot wear. Fine enough for me.

Now, before you start using general principles and whatnots, a few informations:

- the french idea of laïcité (sometimes described abroad as a general anti-religious feeling) involves many thing, such as not wearing any religious symbols in a public area. Obviously, the whole thingy has been lately in conflict with veils, burkas, burkinis and other ridiculous islamofascist clothing fashions, but be assured that a catholic kid is in theory not allowed to wear a cross in school, just like a jewish one is not allowed to wear a kippa.
- swimming pools are public areas.
- burkinis are a religious symbol, which not only - as Don explained - tries to carry a message ('Islam is teh ') but also turns women into mere objects.

So yeah, good riddance. It's about freaking time, and I hope the law project that attempts to ban Burka, Niqab and other similar middle-age crap will pass soon. Not that there are many women wearing burka in France, but that way, they'll know that their distorded view of religion and identity is not welcome here.

Edit: Reading the article really makes it sound like France is on crusade against islam and what not. Obviously, most of the issues nowadays are caused by islam and muslims who can't graspe the principle of laicité, but this very idea of laicité was at first aimed at the catholic church. It also greatly favored the freedom of minor religious groups (jews, protestants, armenians) in France.

[Idaho]

It is alien to our society.

People should come to the country to meld with the society, not do what they or their ancestors did in their own.

If they don't like it - leave.

Lulz...

Is that enshrined in the constitution? Perhaps it should be. We can get parliament to set out what cultural behaviour is acceptable, and anyone who doesn't comply should be deported. How about some good honest white english woman who decides to wear a burkha? Should she be imprisoned?

The Cultural Norms Act (2010)

Section A: Acceptable attire includes:
(i) Slacks and shirts for men
(ii) Skirts and dresses for the ladies

This board can be truely tragi-comic.

[Fragony]

but be assured that a catholic kid is in theory not allowed to wear a cross in school, just like a jewish one is not allowed to wear a kippa.

In theory or practise? I agree with Miotas, security is my only consideration for the burkha, but a niqaab or a veil is just fashion to me. The maroccan pirate-veil even looks kinda cool.

[Idaho]

Interestingly if you look at 20-30 year old photos of crowds in Islamic countries - almost all women are not veiled.

The Koran suggests that men and women dress modestly and "cover all that isn't apparent". The current fashion for complete veiling is relatively recent. It is neither islamic in origin, nor is it that traditional. But hey - this is the org - we don't care about understanding things - we just want a place to knee-jerk.

Pictures of Nasser's funeral:



Left, a Woman in Saudi Arab dress of Royal Family and
Right, a Woman in Palestine dress from Bethlehem:

[Husar]

There is no need to ban the burka, you have to be recognisable on the street, current laws are fine

finger -> face MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA shambling sleepingbag

disrespect is key.

Wouldn't that be illegal under the anti-discrimination laws that countries like Norway, Sweden and Germany have?

[rory_20_uk]

Lulz...

Is that enshrined in the constitution? Perhaps it should be. We can get parliament to set out what cultural behaviour is acceptable, and anyone who doesn't comply should be deported. How about some good honest white english woman who decides to wear a burkha? Should she be imprisoned?

The Cultural Norms Act (2010)

Section A: Acceptable attire includes:
(i) Slacks and shirts for men
(ii) Skirts and dresses for the ladies

This board can be truely tragi-comic.

Indeed it can. Of course, on matters you care about extreme measures are justified...

[Idaho]

Indeed it can. Of course, on matters you care about extreme measures are justified...

What are you actually scared of Rory? You think that your girlfriend will be forced to wear a burkha?

It's an issue because people make it one. Any law would be utterly unworkable, illiberal and ultimately counterproductive.

As I have attempted to show, fashions change. 'Islamic' fashions change too. They will change again - especially if they are not made into issues central to identity.

[Fragony]

Wouldn't that be illegal under the anti-discrimination laws that countries like Norway, Sweden and Germany have?

So what, if they insist on asking more than we are prepared to give humiliate the crap out of them, mock them, redicule them, up to the point that they simply can't take it anymore, and after that laugh them in their face until they start enjoying it and laugh along. Presto.