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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Sure enough but the burkha should be banned, I don't care for the justification their petty beliefs don't offend me, but the burkha is a security-risk pure and simple, you can't see who is under it. As for the rest, couldn't care less.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

    Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

    Howabout false mostaches?
    Last edited by Idaho; 08-13-2009 at 10:46.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Beefy187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Just think of it as fashion.
    I see nothing wrong if they want to wear them.


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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

    Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

    Howabout false mostaches?
    OMG, Halloween will be next.
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

    Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

    Howabout false mostaches?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito View Post
    OMG, Halloween will be next.
    Nobody said that, that's just silly and avoiding the real issue.

    Let's call a spade a spade. It's not about 'safety' or "hygiene'.

    No, burka's should be disallowed because they are denigrating for the women wearing them. It's a clothing designed to make women unrecognisable objects and to mark them as inferior beings. Away with the burka, it's a disgrace.
    Last edited by Andres; 08-13-2009 at 11:08.
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    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    What gives you the right to determine what a person can wear? We aren't dealing with 5 year olds here, these are grown women who should be able to decide what they want to wear. Treating them like little kids and telling them how to get dressed is denigrating.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    It is alien to our society.

    People should come to the country to meld with the society, not do what they or their ancestors did in their own.

    If they don't like it - leave.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    It is alien to our society.

    People should come to the country to meld with the society, not do what they or their ancestors did in their own.

    If they don't like it - leave.

    Lulz...

    Is that enshrined in the constitution? Perhaps it should be. We can get parliament to set out what cultural behaviour is acceptable, and anyone who doesn't comply should be deported. How about some good honest white english woman who decides to wear a burkha? Should she be imprisoned?

    The Cultural Norms Act (2010)

    Section A: Acceptable attire includes:
    (i) Slacks and shirts for men
    (ii) Skirts and dresses for the ladies

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    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    What gives you the right to determine what a person can wear? We aren't dealing with 5 year olds here, these are grown women who should be able to decide what they want to wear. Treating them like little kids and telling them how to get dressed is denigrating.
    I don't know what gives anyone a right to tell what a person can wear, but french laws surely can tell what a person cannot wear. Fine enough for me.

    Now, before you start using general principles and whatnots, a few informations:

    - the french idea of laïcité (sometimes described abroad as a general anti-religious feeling) involves many thing, such as not wearing any religious symbols in a public area. Obviously, the whole thingy has been lately in conflict with veils, burkas, burkinis and other ridiculous islamofascist clothing fashions, but be assured that a catholic kid is in theory not allowed to wear a cross in school, just like a jewish one is not allowed to wear a kippa.
    - swimming pools are public areas.
    - burkinis are a religious symbol, which not only - as Don explained - tries to carry a message ('Islam is teh ') but also turns women into mere objects.

    So yeah, good riddance. It's about freaking time, and I hope the law project that attempts to ban Burka, Niqab and other similar middle-age crap will pass soon. Not that there are many women wearing burka in France, but that way, they'll know that their distorded view of religion and identity is not welcome here.

    Edit: Reading the article really makes it sound like France is on crusade against islam and what not. Obviously, most of the issues nowadays are caused by islam and muslims who can't graspe the principle of laicité, but this very idea of laicité was at first aimed at the catholic church. It also greatly favored the freedom of minor religious groups (jews, protestants, armenians) in France.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 08-13-2009 at 12:56. Reason: Language

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Meneldil View Post
    but be assured that a catholic kid is in theory not allowed to wear a cross in school, just like a jewish one is not allowed to wear a kippa.
    In theory or practise? I agree with Miotas, security is my only consideration for the burkha, but a niqaab or a veil is just fashion to me. The maroccan pirate-veil even looks kinda cool.

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Let's call a spade a spade. It's not about 'safety' or "hygiene'.

    No, burka's should be disallowed because they are denigrating for the women wearing them. It's a clothing designed to make women unrecognisable objects and to mark them as inferior beings. Away with the burka, it's a disgrace.
    to take this further, we expect to be able to 'read' someones face in order to judge their intentions and assess their trustworthiness, especially with those we don't know personally.

    that may not matter in societies where women are effectively chattel, why do you need to trust someone who has no power and influence to affect your life, but i kind of thought we'd got past that in the west.

    i'm not sure i'd legislate against a form of clothing, but i'd be damn sure there was no legislation barring discrimination on the trust grounds.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Nobody said that, that's just silly and avoiding the real issue.

    Let's call a spade a spade. It's not about 'safety' or "hygiene'.

    No, burka's should be disallowed because they are denigrating for the women wearing them. It's a clothing designed to make women unrecognisable objects and to mark them as inferior beings. Away with the burka, it's a disgrace.
    Person's choice. The person should have the choice not to wear them, not necessarily be "banned". However, it should fit in with clothing standards, such as health or safety regulation.

    On the other hand, there are certain biniki's being banned because it is clothing designed to make women sexual objects and mark them as inferior beings for a man's pleasure. Away with the bikini, it's a disgrace.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Person's choice. The person should have the choice not to wear them, not necessarily be "banned". However, it should fit in with clothing standards, such as health or safety regulation.

    On the other hand, there are certain biniki's being banned because it is clothing designed to make women sexual objects and mark them as inferior beings for a man's pleasure. Away with the bikini, it's a disgrace.
    Clothing? That's a secondary issue when it comes to womens rights. The primary issue is economic independence. Without that, none of the other stuff is possible, nor is it even relevant. Without economic independence, the woman remains a slave. You can make her well trained and well dressed, but she will still be a slave.

    First get her an income. Then you can worry about all the other stuff.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Clothing? That's a secondary issue when it comes to womens rights. The primary issue is economic independence. Without that, none of the other stuff is possible, nor is it even relevant. Without economic independence, the woman remains a slave. You can make her well trained and well dressed, but she will still be a slave.

    First get her an income. Then you can worry about all the other stuff.
    Yep. Equal opportunity and equal pay. The rest will follow on its own.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Clothing? That's a secondary issue when it comes to womens rights. The primary issue is economic independence. Without that, none of the other stuff is possible, nor is it even relevant. Without economic independence, the woman remains a slave. You can make her well trained and well dressed, but she will still be a slave.

    First get her an income. Then you can worry about all the other stuff.
    Well that isn't a very realistic course of events now is it, why would one hire a blue sack without eyes when one can hire something that resembles a human being.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito View Post
    OMG, Halloween will be next.
    Halloween is once a year. These burkhas all look the same and they are a common view(are they? have never seen one), I could organise the greatest heist in history right under your noses, or worse.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Last time I read the Koran it stated women need to cover their breasts. I could not see the bit that said hair.

    Assuming that men have no control over their urges, why is it that women suffer in requiring a constant bodyguard and wearing such horrible clothes? Shouldn't men be forced to wear chastity belts and anything else that causes them to all be such cause of concern?

    Just like wearing a bikini isn't culturally acceptable on the beaches of Saudi Arabia, these things shouldn't be acceptable over here. Of course, we're not as barbaric to flog the offenders.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I...Agree with the French

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Shouldn't men be forced to wear chastity belts and anything else that causes them to all be such cause of concern?
    How about this,



    Burkha for men


    I can't see the face of people walking in front of me. Is that a security risk?

    Should wearing a mask be illegal too?

    Howabout false mostaches?


    Is there a place where a lot of people wear masks, allowing just about any trafficking? A criminal or terrorist can be completely invisible.
    __________________
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-13-2009 at 11:04.

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