[Multi-AAR] - History of men - EB part

**Azathoth** · 08-13-2009, 20:53

Holy ****.

**Olaf Blackeyes** · 08-14-2009, 04:17

Hmmmm.... it seems that Multi-game AARs are much more common than i thought. Yeah....crap.
But anyways AWESOME Alt His TL.

**Fixiwee** · 08-14-2009, 10:39

Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes

Hmmmm.... it seems that Multi-game AARs are much more common than i thought. Yeah....crap.
But anyways AWESOME Alt His TL.

You said I should write an AAR about it way back:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=111244

;)

**Horatius Flaccus** · 08-14-2009, 19:29

Great, I'll be following this one!

**Fixiwee** · 08-20-2009, 18:03

“When soldiers have been baptized in the fire of a battle-field, they have all one rank in my eyes.”
-Napoleon

Battles of history with Patrick Goodwin

Battle of Mazana 254 BC

Who is Patrick Goodwin?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Goodwin: In the middle of the 3rd century BC the Roman republic was at war with the Carthage. The reason for this war was a conflict for the Mediterranean Sea around Sicily. But when the war started in 262 BC nothing happened at first. The Romans did not use their superior land forces to secure the Island, and the Carthaginians at the same time did not use their fleet to cut the Roman supply from the mainland with their fleet. But a few years later both sides bolstered up their troops on Sicily. The Roman Senate decided to send a consul under the name Lucius Valerius Maximus in the year 254 BC with two consular armies and allies to secure the Island with a deceive blow against the Carthaginian army. We asked Alfred Kennard, a university professor from the University of New York about the reasons that lead to the Battle of Mazana.

Alfred Kennard

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Kennard [sitting in his office]: The first Punic war is actually quite a mystery for modern historians. We do not know the exact reasons why this war started. We have no clear aggressor; Rome had acquired all the land it needed to feed its population in the last wars. Land grabbing for reasons of trade cannot have been a reason either, Rome was no trading state and there were no merchants that influenced politics yet. Also Sicily was not the Mediterranean granary it would later become, so the strategic importance of Sicily was not a priority either. I personally believe this war was an accident and the lack of communication techniques, unlike today, made it impossible to find a compromise. As the war went on, for Rome this was simply a war to keep Carthage away from the mainland.

Goodwin: In the year 254 BC the Roman consul Lucius Valerius Maximus was campaigning in Sicily. The enemy army was commanded by two people, Hamalcar the Younger and Hamalcar the Elder, father and son. Both were Carthaginian generals that brought mercenary troops from Africa, Spain and Sicilian Greek. When Maximus reached Lilibeo, an important stronghold for Carthage, father and son decided to lay a trap for the Roman consul. Hamalcar the Elder was a seasoned and experienced military leader who had fought with much success on other Carthaginian borders and his soon showed much potential to reach his glory.

[Both father and sun sitting on a horse near a cliff that overlooks the area to Lilbeo and the sea.]

From left to right: Hamalcar the Elder, Hamalcar the Younger

Father: We have evaded the Romans for long enough, Maximus troops are now close enough. The key to our victory is that we have a superior number of troops, elephants and a sacred band from our mother, the city of Carthage. Son, I know that you are eager to show your will to fight in battle, but I need you to stay in reserve and wait for my signal.
Son: But father, I need to show my troops that I am able to lead them to battle. I can’t go on like that for ever.
Father: Silence! I will not have you question my command. I will charge you with treason if you do not obey my orders to the point. Did I make myself clear?
Son: Yes my leader.

Goodwin: The following day Carthaginian troops marched against the Roman camp, Maximus orders them to order up in a tight formation.

Maximus: Listen up my fellow Legates. My plan is to fight in a tight formation - let our army be a "Phalanx" so that Hamalcar will burst asunder with his troops . This way we can balance the large army the enemy has brought before us. Nothing can stop us now.

Goodwin: Both sides were ready and prepared for battle. The Romans had about 30.000 troops, while the Carthaginians had about 40.000 men.

The roman troops were waiting eagerly for the Carthaginians to arrive. Maximus was hardly an experienced general, but the Romans feared the Carthaginian power and were willing to stick with Maximus. Ancient historian Fabius tells us:
The soldiers of every rank were looking at the troops marching towards them; they had brought many man and fierce elephants. Unlike Hamalcar the Elder - Maximus was not a really good leader. He had only achieved the office because his family connections with the Senate and he wanted prove his worth as a leader. But besides that the Romans were loyal to him, because nevertheless he was a kind and forgiving man.

Goodwin: In the late morning the battle is a bout to begin, the mood is tense on both sides. This battle could determine the winner of Sicily.

Goodwin: The Romans have formed up in a good position, but the Carthaginians have a terrible weapon that can strike fear into any soldier; the war-trained Elephant.

Kennard: The Romans did not face Elephants for the first time. Pyrrhus, when he attacked Italy some 30 years earlier, he also brought Elephants with him. Nevertheless the sight of Elephants was a terrifying one, and the Romans had not yet developed any tactic to counter this ancient battle tank.

Goodwin: When the scouts confirmed sighting of Elephants the Roman soldiers became worried. It takes a lot to bring down an African Elephant. The only hope was that the beasts would panic when wounded and run away.

Goodwin: About 150 feet from the enemy, the Cartheginians start to charge with war cries, while the Romans throw their pila, a roman javelin onto the soldiers.

Seconds later the Carthaginian cavalry also charges into the Roman line. The impact is overwhelming, the Romans get to feel all the military power of Carthage. But the most important attack happens on the left flank of the Roman side.

The Elephants attack the left flank and are about to annihilate it. This is a dangerous moment for Maximus. He orders his most experienced soldiers to secure the left flank, the Triarii.

But even with the Triarii trying to secure the situation the Carthaginians are about to crush the left flank and the Romans are endangered to be encircled.

Meanwhile heavy fighting occurs in the centre and at the right flank. Cost of man is high on both sides and the battle proves to be a terribly acrimonious one.

Moments later Hamalcar the Younger sends his troops to battle, after his father sent the signal. He hid his army, about 10,000 people in the nearby woods.

In the centre the death toll rises, brutal hand to hand fighting that cost lives on both sides. Here Roman Hastati, the light infantry, faces the Sacred Band, a Carthaginian elite force.

The Romans cannot break through such a well organized attacker, so they sent their cavalry to encircle the sacred band. But this move leads to a crack in the left roman flank. Allthough the Romans were able to panic the Elephants under severe costs of their own men, the left flank is finally about to break away.

[Maximus sitting on his horse, a military legate is aproaching him.]

Sir, the enemy is outflanking us and we will most likely become encircled. What are your orders?
I… I don’t know?
Sir! The men need your orders least we all get slaughtered.
We… Prepare my man to charge the flanking enemy immediately.

Kennard: What Maximus intended next was called the devotion, a self-sacrifice or suicide for the greater cause of Rome. With this act he wanted to restore faith in his man to fight to the last man.

Maximus charges into the flanking enemy to the surprise of the Carthaginians. There he is lethally wounded by an enemy spear. Word of his suicide for the cause of Rome, restoring his name as a general inspired his troops who were about to loose heart.

The Principes, the standard soldier of the Roman army, rally and form a line of defence to hold up the advancing enemy.

The Carthaginians were not able to completely encircle the Romans and now faced a foe that was willing to make a final stand in this position. The hours went on, and the fighting was still grim and fierce. Dead bodies lying everywhere, wounded screaming for help and some thousand man on both sides still fighting and trying to win.
Hamalcar the Elder is now in a difficult position. He fears that the Romans are to determined to win, so he orders that he will personally attack with his unit of heavy horses and break the spirit.

Hamalcar the Elder: Our cavalry is the needs to break the Roman spirit. We need to push hard, constantly charging the enemy. We can break the spirit, I know it. Ba’al give me strength.

Hamalcars charge did not have the effect he sought. The Romans still stand and fight. Fabius tells us about this particular moment:
But the Roman soldiers were enraged, willing to fight to the death. The spirit of Mars was firing up their will to give all and everything. When Hamalcar charged Roman soldiers were screaming everywhere: Kill that pig! Get him! It was that moment when Hamalcar realized what a terrible mistake he did.

Hamalcar the Elder was quickly surrounded and dragged of his horse. He was dead minutes later. But now the Carthaginians were also furious by the death of the leader and fighting continued for hours. The whole field was filled with dead. In the afternoon about ¾ of each army was either dead or wounded.

During the late afternoon the Carthaginian flanking force was stopped and routed, the centre-force was still fighting by all means necessary. The Sacred Band was fighting fiercely and the Romans were not able to break through their Phalanx formation.

It was already becoming night and the troops ceased fighting because of the dark. Zones of battles disintegrated and both sides returned to their camps. The following morning both sides were utterly weakened and retreated. The battle of Mazana ended indecisively as a draw. The Romans brought about 30,000 troops and at the end of the day only 6,500 were left, thus loosing about 23,500 men. Carthage brought about 40,000 men to the battle, at the end of the day they only had 6,000 left, thus loosing 34,000 men.

One might think that the Romans won statistically, but that is not correct: The Romans had to retreat from western Sicily, while Carthage was able to hold their ground.

Kennard: This remarkable yet terribly brutal battle marked the beginning of a new phase in the battle of Sicily. One might think that the Romans won statistically, but that is not correct: The Romans had to retreat from western Sicily, while Carthage was able to hold their ground.
Now both sides had shown what they are worth in battle. From a military point of view this battle changed little. No tactics were changed afterwards, nor did the battle determine a shift of power. This bloody battle only cost a lot of lives and radicalized the Punic war.

Now it was clear, the battle for Sicily would need to be fought with any needs necessary.

**penguinking** · 08-21-2009, 06:20

Very good update.

Rome should break the deadlock by building a fleet and invading North Africa. It never fails.

Minor nitpick:

Originally Posted by Fixiwee

The battle of Mazana ended indecisively as a draw. The Romans brought about 30,000 troops and at the end of the day only 6,500 were left, thus losing about 13,500 men. [/COLOR]Carthage brought about 40,000 men to the battle, at the end of the day they only had 6,000 left, thus losing 34,000 men.

That should be 23,500 Roman casualties.

**Fixiwee** · 08-21-2009, 10:42

Originally Posted by penguinking

That should be 23,500 Roman casualties.

Oh, that's the reason I studied history and not mathematics. Cheers. ;)

**Olaf Blackeyes** · 09-25-2009, 04:35

Originally Posted by Fixiwee

You said I should write an AAR about it way back:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=111244

;)

.
..............wow im ***** stupid.

This is still pretty awesome though.

EDIT: I also notice that the Averni are hurting my Germans. THIS ANGERS ME!

**Fixiwee** · 09-25-2009, 11:15

Dont worry. A few decades from now a man will rise up to conquer those dirty gauls and save your beloved germanic tribes! :)

**Fixiwee** · 10-05-2009, 14:14

A rey muerto, rey puesto
-Spanish proverb

The Iberians

Transcript of the college class lecture „The RomanRepublic“ in 2003, University of Minnesota, USA

[Prof. Saramotti speaking]:
Good day everyone to today’s class. Let me start right away with an announcement that Professor Marshal from Chicago will hold a special presentation about King Cambyses conquest of Anatolia and the impact to the Greek world. It’s certainly something you shouldn’t miss. Oh yes, the presentation itself is next Thursday at Coffman’s.
Alright, today’s topic is the second Punic war. As we look at the second Punic war and we notice something interesting: During the first ten years of the war hardly anything happened. We have already seen that an important war for the Romans started the same way… Right, the first Punic war. But we have to be more specific, because the first ten years of the war a man called Tiberius Cornelius Scipio Asina, the son of Lucius Cornelius Scipio who already fought in the first Punic war, conquered great parts of the Spanish coast up to Mastia in the south. From 220 BC to 210 BC most battles were just small skirmishes. The situation seemed to change in 210 BC when the Carthaginians under the military commander Mytonnes Neperis allied themselves with the strong Celtic tribe called Carpetani under the King Mutorke Carmocoi. This alliance with the Carpetani seemed to shift the balance for the Carthaginians. Hence Scipio Asina retreated back to Arsé in the north. The Roman Senate realized that Spain was now the battleground where the war with Carthage had to be fought and sent more troops to aid Scipio Asina
[Student asking]: Under what authority was Scipio in Spain for such a long time?
[Prof. Saramotti speaking]: Very good question. Scipio Asina became consul in - I think - 218 BC and went to Spain fighting Carthage like his father did. Once he finished his consulship he stayed there as a pro-consul. So he had complete command or “Imperium” over the troops there without actually being a consul. We will talk about this in more detail when we come to his son who was the first to bend the rules in that sense.
Anyway. In 209 BC it came to the first battle on a larger scale, the so called Battle of Ildum. But let’s take a break first.
[…]

The Roman Empire, by Wolfgang Schreier, Bonn 2003

The battle of Ildum in 209 BC marked the escalation of the second Punic war. Compared to the later battles it was still a small military clash, but it was an important one because the Romans won the battle and gained the initiative again. The Senate in Rome was also noticing Scipio Asinas effort in fighting the Carthaginians in mostly unknown lands.

Roman Hastati throwing spears at the aproaching enemy.

The Carthaginian army consited of numerous ethnic groups so that the Romans had to fight off different fighting techniques.

Though relying on mercanaries the Carthaginians also had their own elite troops. Here elite Hoplites fight against te Romans. These troops were a tough opponent for the Scipio.

Fabius mentioned the use of five African war elephants in the battle, but they did not have any major impact on the battle.

Far more important was the Roman cavallry which was used as shook troops to break and route the enemy army.

Scipio Asina knew how to use his victory and pushed with the rest of his troops including Celt Iberians auxiliary to the south where he captured the city Mastia including the general he defeated at Ildum - Mytonnes Nepheris.
His pro-consulship ran out that year and he returned to Rome celebrating a triumph. Scipio Asina remained with the Senate but did not run for Consul anymore.

In the same year consul Titus Fabius Maximus won the battle of Segestia against the Ligures under the king Cador in North Italy. Now all of Italy was in control of Rome and this victory lead to the creation of a new province in North Italy called Gallia Cisalpina, which means “Gaul on this side of the Alps”.

The following years Carthage retreated to the southwest of Spain and reorganized their troops. The Romans had won a battle, but the war was not decided yet. Meanwhile the Carpentani tribe was keeping the Romans busy and small battles with some 5000 to 8.000 troops on both sides occurred every year. The situation seemed to change when a 26 year old Roman legate called Spurius Cornelius Sulla serving under pro-praetor Decimus Tullius Mes faced King Mutorke Carmocoi in battle.

Fabius - Ab Urbe Condita
(written at about 50 BC)

Book XIV

(4) In the winter of the year 550 ab urbe condita [204 BC] the Carpentani attacked roman lands in Spain under their King Mutorke Carmocoi. But before I will retell the story of the battle at Etovissa, I want to talk about both leaders.
Mutorke Carmocoi was a proud barbarian king of old age. He was loved by his people, he was a brave warrior, but also a brilliant leader. Among his people, it is said that he was the best hunter and no one could match his skills with the bow. Another legend says that since his birth Mutorke Carmocoi has never cried out of pain or fear. These kind of legends always surround famous leaders, nevertheless one thing can be said for sure; he was one of a proud barbarian king.
Spurius Cornelius Sulla came to Spain with the new pro-praetor Decimus Tullius Mes to Spain and. He served as a military tribune, queastor and military legate under his patron. Decimus Tullius Mes was not much of a fighter and let Sulla in command against the Iberians, despite Sulla being only in his 20ies. Sulla was born and educated in Rome, he was a smart man interested in politics and philosophy. He was a brilliant orator and many disputes were decided by his cunning and striking words. Nevertheless he was still young and inexperienced and of both Sulla was inferior to Carmocoi.

A history of Rome, by Prof Alfred Kennard, 2002 New York

The battle of Etovissa in 204 was one of the largest during the Roman-Iberian wars. While the Carthaginians were still reforming their army, the Carpentani were keeping the Romans busy.
Both armies were equal in numbers and strength. Fabius account on the leaders and the battle itself is difficult to examine, since it is filled with stereotypical views about the educated dynamic Roman general fighting the brave and strong yet uncivilized Barbarian.

The Iberians were renown fighters. Here an elite cavallry band gathers for battle.

A Roman manipel charging a small hill while being harrased with spears by the enemy.

The wise use of cavallry as a flanking unit won Sulla the advantage over the Iberian king.

Roman cavallry trampeling the fleeing enemy to death. It was not a habit to take prisoners.

In the end, the 26 year old Sulla won by using his cavalry to encircle the enemy and crushing the Carpentani completely. That the king Carmocoi was slain in battle added much prestige to Sullas name. It is no surprise that his career got a boost: the following year he was already elected as Curulian Aedile. Nevertheless the war was far from over, the Iberians and the Carthaginians were still strong enemies, but for now Rome had won the initiative.

**Fixiwee** · 10-07-2009, 01:32

Where do you run to now, Quintus?
by Sarah Buehler, 2007

Chapter Nine

A ceramic bottle of wine and sour smell was the first thing he noticed when he entered the room. He looked around, but could not find the culprit of the foul stench. Quintus nose was starting to itch, his feelings about the offending smell was starting to bother him. “No, Appius Aurelius Cotta, the great roman senator is not here” Quintus said to himself after he decided that the smell was probably just part of the room. “Typical” he added as he noticed that he was really talking aloud. The slave, a young Spaniard called Modiac could not help himself but to grin. Slaves from Spain were en vogue since Scipio Asinas famous campaign in this wild and uncivilised land and a sophisticated man like Appius could not resist the exotic goods coming from the end of the world. As for the slave Modica, Quintus wasn’t mad at him for smirking, but rather surprised that he understood him. This young man mastered the Latin language so quickly, spotting the sarcasm that he implied when he referred to Cotta as a great roman senator. Appius Aurelius Cotta was not a brilliant politician, he was no man of great words or military exploits. But on the other hand he was not stupid. Appius knew how to keep friends, when to say yes when you actually mean no. In all those years, as Appius Aurelius Cotta was now in his 60ies, he became one of the oldest and most respected members of the senate. And he was a complete drunk.
The stench, there it was again. It seemed to come from the window, so Quintus decided to move in that direction. “Ah! What a great view” he remarked as he looked outside, noticing the cityscape around him. The mansion he stood in was situated at the top of the Caelian hill, a friendly and rich neighbourhood in Rome. He cold spot some hundred chimneys from up here with fumes rising up to the sky like grey pillars.
The smell seemed to worsen as he studied the view. He sniffed and realized that the stench was coming directly from the ground. “Oh gross” he shouted when he finally discovered that someone had vomited out of the window, covering the wall with disgusting puke.

“Don’t worry, it’s not going to be there forever.” A strong determined voice spoke to Quintus. “I tried to get someone to clean it up all morning, but imagine this. This household does not have any leaders. Not a single one.”
“Ah, Appius Aurelius Cotta” Quintus reacted and quickly tried to hide the disgust written in his face. “On behalf of my family…”
“No need for formalities Quintus, you have been my client for 15 years now. I think we can be more direct with each other.” The Senator said in a voice that was relaxing yet consisted a significant sound of authority while he was sitting down behind his desk. Usually a drunk like Appius would become fat over the time, but for some reason Appius stayed in perfect shape for his age.
“Alright, so why did you call for me?”
“Do you know my grandfather?”
“Uh, pardon me”?
“My grandfather! Caius Aurelius Cotta. As a lawyer and historian you should know him.”
“Of course I do. He was the one who laid siege to Carthage, thus ending the first war we had with that city” Quintus mentioned with a suddenly determined voice.
“Help me do the same thing.”
“I am sorry - what?”
Appius stood up in sudden eagerness shouting aloud: “Help me conquer Carthage. As a historian you can find out what he did and how, so I can do the same.”
“But… I mean… History does not work that way.”
“Why not? You can study exactly what happened and how he did that. History does work that way.” He suddenly leaped toward Quintus grabing him by his arms, passing by his desk. “You historians always say that people don’t want to learn from the past. Now you can prove yourself wrong.”
Quintus started to think this through. Indeed Appius Aurelius Cotta, his legal patron was just asking him a favour. But the way he spoke seemed to scare him, as if Appius had no idea of warfare so that Quintus had to come up with a magic formula written down by some old mysterious librarian 40 years ago.
“All right, all right! I just didn’t expect using my skills for war like that. I guess I can look into the books and the annual reports. Maybe we can indeed find a clue or two.”

After the usual small talk and the discussion of some minor legal issues Quintus left the manor. “Was he drunk or is he really planning to conquer Carthage?” he thought while going down a busy winter street. He pondered the situation, Rome and Carthage were both fighting a terrible and bloody war in Spain. Landing troops in Africa might solve the deadlock in this terrible war, just that no other Senator was speaking of this option for some reason. Was it possible? Or was it simply too dangerous with an enemy who might actually have learnt from its mistakes.
“I don’t like the idea. This is going to end bad for me.” Quintus said while he was walking down a busy street in the cold city of Rome.