Calvary for the Romans?

[Kevin]

Right now, I'm at about 245 BC on my Roman campaign but I've noticed that their cavalry is REALLY bad. Equites Extraordinarii are their only decent ones but still I end up losing a lot of them after a while Where can I recruit better calvary and do the Romans eventually get better calvary?

[Cute Wolf]

Actually, if u can use well, Camillan Eqvites Romani are good against another cavalry, but beware, their polybian variant is lame. Eqvites Extraordinarii is good, but maybe you should train more "historically correct" gallic light cavalry as auxilia, as they are really cheap and good. Oh yeah, in southern frontier, Training numidians are worth it, but in Hellas, you should stick with mercenary cavalry (especially Thessalians)

Actually, once u hit Marian, Train Eqvites Gallorum, they are among the best non HA light cavalry available... in my opinion.

[bobbin]

Gaul, you can get celtic noble cavalry with the regional MIC's, rome has really sucky cav in general so don't expect much from them on that front.

[antisocialmunky]

Merc up or get regionals. Or you can just not take cavalry.

[Valion]

The Early romani cavalry don't suck that much, employed properly they can play a decisive role in a battle. In my game i use them as shock troops, seeing the AI usually lets their generals or cavalry charge my legionary line i use my roman cavalry's high charge bonus to inflict a severe blow which sometime results with the enemy cavalry routing or if i position my charge properly kill of the enemy general in the impact, the hammer and anvil tactic to be precise Other than flanking the enemy and charging their rears the only other usefulness they have is to chase routing troops
against other medium/heavy cavalry they'll get chopped to pieces, but hey that's what you have your triarii for isn't it? with their pointy sticks

[antisocialmunky]

You have to use weak cavalry in conjunction with light infantry. The cav slows down the enemy cav and your infantry force them ot run away.

[TKaz84]

You recieve better cavalry in the Marian Era in the form of your auxilaries: Gallic, Hispanic, Germanic, and Thracian (with appropriate AORs).

Rome did not have the equestrian tradition that other cultures did, and many of the wealth classes fought as heavy infantry instead of cavalry. Thus Rome almost always turned to other peoples for cavlry, form Gauls and Germans in the West to Alans in the East. The late Roman cavalry in vanilla RTW was very much a fantasy unit-it was far better than it should have been (if it should have existed at all).

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Then... is historically right that eqvites romani(roman noble cavalry) is the worst cavalry of the world?

[Watchman]

No. Plus they're good enough in EB too, just seriously not cost-effective due to those funny price adjustements premarian Roman units get.

[antisocialmunky]

Merc up some Hippies. They are th same thing except 500 mnai cheaper.

[Atraphoenix]

roman army was not built for cavalry.
they used cavalry mostly for scout missions.
though later they adapted their heavy cavalry mostly from their defeats against parthia.
but this is loo late for EB period.
and believe micromanaging infantry army much more easier than micromanaging a cavalry army in battles. and in life you have no option or power to stop time

[Cute Wolf]

@Atra
Soory, but I didn't agree with your argument....
Their gallic and germanic mercenary cavalry was actually among some of the finest in the world that time.... but IF you arguing about their native Romaioi cavalry..... that was a different story

:beer:

[Andy1984]

Try to get some regional cavalry in Iberia. They have one of the best light skirmisher cavalry. Campanici and Gallic cavalry are decent medium skirmisher cavalry, while hippeis and equites are decent medium melee cavalry. You can get horse archers near the Black Sea, while your family members and some of your mercenary generals can serve as medium shock cavalry. When it comes to heavy shock cavalry, the romani unit list isn't really generous. I guess you'll have to rely on equites extraordinarii, or as mentioned before the thessalian cavalry.

[Atraphoenix]

@Atra
Soory, but I didn't agree with your argument....
Their gallic and germanic mercenary cavalry was actually among some of the finest in the world that time.... but IF you arguing about their native Romaioi cavalry..... that was a different story

:beer:

I do not mean foedarati,

if I were in that perspective I should say Pahlava infantry sucks, true but you can have hellenic mercenaries and persohellenic hoplites.

[Celtic_Punk]

the romans were not known for cavalry. they liked to use other people's to form their cavalry wings.
Gallic cavalry will mop the battlefield with your roman cavalry. hire some celtic cavalry, when you expand to greece, get some nice horses from Thessaly. I've never played the romans extensively, but I'd imagine they have access to at least some good cavalry from Greece.

Focus on your heavy infantry. deploy in checkerboard formation and you'll have no problem with enemy cavalry attacking your infantry usually, as you'll be able to surround and rout them with your 2nd or 3rd line quickly. The romans favoured a large heavy infantry contingent, with auxillary cavalry supporting its flanks. Your general's unit is not as powerful as other factions' general units. Don't go toe to toe with Gallic generals. They'll win unless you've got much more experience than them. Macedonian generals.. don't even try to engage them with your general, its not worth the risk


Seeing as your troops in the camilian era have spears, you should be fine without a very strong cavalry wing (keep your general close to the line so he can be protected from enemy cavalry by your triarii) by the polyibian reforms you'll have not only pretty decent heavy infantry, but you'll also have access to better cavalry by that point. the vast vast vast majority of cavalry you'll be fielding won't be recruited from a barracks, it'll be hired from the merc pool.

[athanaric]

Your general's unit is not as powerful as other factions' general units. Don't go toe to toe with Gallic generals. They'll win unless you've got much more experience than them. Macedonian generals.. don't even try to engage them with your general, its not worth the risk.

In fact, I would extend this suggestion: Don't go toe to toe with any other general unit, as well as any Germanic or Dacian infantry (apart from slingers). KH and Suebi generals are especially good at killing Romani ones - if they catch them, that is. Superior speed is the main asset of Roman generals.

[Celtic_Punk]

bwahahah you reminded me of my KH campaign ( i miss EB... damn computer) the Romani were great allies against carthaginian ships and the epirotes and Makedonians... but then once I took control of all of Greece, the romans backstabbed me, and attacked me with 3 fullstacks at pella, epiros, and thessaly.

at the time I had 2 armies, my Spartan army (oooo don't mess with that army) and my athenian army, they destroyed the athenians at pella, and began marching south, the spartans stationed south of epiros, destroyed the attack there, then went east to meet the 2nd fullstack that took thessally unopposed. They had 4 family members in the army, I had 2 in mine, one for each flank. (best flank guards you'll ever have haha! The clowns tried to flank with 2 FM's on each side with other cavalry helping, both of my FM's butchered them and they all died within 10 minutes, the whole army routed and i cut them to peices since they were all exhausted and my men were all fresh and spartan ran em all down... moral of the story, don't charge infantry family members armed with spears with your general's cavalry, especially when yer using shitty roman cavalry.

I gotta say though, best cavalry generals have to be Gallic. They are hardy, superior to the romans (your main enemy in the mid-late game) and are dependable to the last, and they just keep getting better and better the more you fight with them. I prefer them to makedonian generals because A) they are faster and B) since they are lighter they have more stamina, therefore they almost continually go from one side of the battle to another providing a confidence boost to the troops all up the line, shouting encouragements, and fighting where you need the support most. A highly mobile rescue squad if ya will.... Their only downside is their lack of armour, which means they are susceptible to heavier cavalry, but you are unlikely to face true heavy cavalry of the East in Western Europe. Unless you are doing a relapse of the Brennus' epic journey to forge Galatia, you won't need to worry about Thessalonian horses.

[Cute Wolf]

@ Atra...
I didn't mean foederati... I Mean in EB timeframe - Marian Eqvites Gallorvm and Eqvites Germanorvm
If u turn off their skirmish, they could be relied to properly charge and kill any enemies....

But that's right... they had the "Worst" bodyguards....... even I think to change Romaioi Bodyguards with infantry for some men... especially after reading about caesar and his actions (he dismount and fight on foot together with his men to bost his legion's morale) - Think about having Envocatae as bodyguards... but most of their generals are happy enough with their crappy cavalry of course...

[antisocialmunky]

On of the big things people forget to do with Gallic Cavalry(the best of hte lot IMHO) is to turn off javelins so they can do their formed charge. Otherwise they don't break out their lances and hurl javelins until they get stabbed in hte face.

[IrishHitman]

Actually, if u can use well, Camillan Eqvites Romani are good against another cavalry, but beware, their polybian variant is lame. Eqvites Extraordinarii is good, but maybe you should train more "historically correct" gallic light cavalry as auxilia, as they are really cheap and good. Oh yeah, in southern frontier, Training numidians are worth it, but in Hellas, you should stick with mercenary cavalry (especially Thessalians)

Actually, once u hit Marian, Train Eqvites Gallorum, they are among the best non HA light cavalry available... in my opinion.

Regardless, you're still going to get trounced by Makedonian Hetairoi and similar heavy cavalry in any engagement where actual fighting is occurring.

[Kevin]

On of the big things people forget to do with Gallic Cavalry(the best of hte lot IMHO) is to turn off javelins so they can do their formed charge. Otherwise they don't break out their lances and hurl javelins until they get stabbed in hte face.

how do you turn off javelins?

[V.T. Marvin]

Just turn off the "Fire at will" mode and order them to charge by "right-click".

Actually, I find the Equites Consulares quite capable fighters and very rarely loose a FM in combat (if it happens it just adds to realism and role-playing, so not a big deal here). My legions are composed of a roman core which is infantry-only (+ 1-2 FMs) and the allies who do have 1-2 cavalry units. Of these I find the Ligurians, Illyrians, Tarentines and of course the Numidians the most usefull.

[Head Casse]

Take off the fire at will mode. While you're at it make sure the skirmish mode is off too.

HTH

[Weebeast]

In case you don't know, if you want your "non-skirmish" infantry (hastati, principe etc) to use up all the javelins do not right-click any unit but simply place them in range and turn on fire at will. If you right click they'll throw the pila only once and then charge.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

Romans fire javelins when any enemy charge. If it's infantry who's charging, they will take the first volley before the impact.

[Head Casse]

Actually, I find the Equites Consulares quite capable fighters and very rarely loose a FM in combat

I'm going to risk a QFT here. I know that they're not the best around but I've never been under whelmed by the Consulares. I have used them (ahistoricaly) as a hammer with some success and if battered by better cav, they can at least hang around for a bit until I bring in some support.

In general I don't have a problem with the indigenous Romani cavalry. It does what I expect it to do at an appropriate price. Their infantry does more.

[The General]

Personally, I like Equites Campanici and Leuce Epos/Curepos for auxiliary/support cavalry and find them alright. They can pepper the enemy troops with javelins and can charge home with alt-right click if you want to break the enemy (nothing like a few showers of javelins into the back of an engaged enemy, followed up by a charge or two).

Also, I've always found Equites Consulares up to their job. Their not the best FM/heavy cavalry unit around, but can make those charges into the backs and flanks of enemy units and/or engage the enemy mêlée cavalry.