Napoleon: Total War (Official Expansion Thread)

[Owen Glyndwr]

What it's really starting to sound like to me, is CA rolled out this "new engine" for N:TW and charged us $50 for it so they could receive our feedback and appropriately finetune the engine so they could paste the tested engine onto N:TW and sell this to us as a finished product...for another $50.

In essence we have been their unwitting Guinea Pigs. Paying Beta testers, in the fullest sense of the term.

I'm sorry CA, but you will not get another cent out of me. I don't care if N: TW turns out to be the masterstroke of strategy games and one of the greatest video games of all time. I'm tired of the empty promises. I'm tired of the simulated hype. I'm tired of the falsified p/reviews, and most of all, I'm tired of playing unfinished products.

Come back here once you learn how to treat your long-time fans as valued customers and not walking wallets waiting to be scammed out of their money, and then we can talk games. Until then I'll be playing EB, thank you very much.

[Veho Nex]

CA is starting to sound like EA before the big spore scene...

[aimlesswanderer]

It sounds great, but then again ETW sounded great too - and it has gotten worse as more "fixes" (non reversible ones too) have been released. They really should fix the current game rather than devote all those resources to a new one.

I will definitely not be buying this one until there has been lots of player feedback about how good or bugged it is, unlike previous TW games. Sad, but the whole once bitten twice shy thing comes to mind...

[Jack Lusted]

I understand this is a very exciting time for CA but...

whatever happened to the multiplayer campaign beta? Is that now planned for N:TW? Will we need to buy N:TW for MP campaign? Is it even on the drawing board at this point? Understand this was a huge selling point of ETW for me and was hyped like crazy right before launch.

The MP campaign beta is still coming for ETW.

[Monk]

The MP campaign beta is still coming for ETW.

Hm. Well, okay then! Good to know you guys haven't forgotten.

Thanks Lusted.

[kitbogha]

I still can't get ETW to work on my computer (CTD when you are going to battle screen but ONLY in campaign mode not custom mode), so they are not getting any more of my money. I have been hugely disappointed wth ETW having been an avid fan of the series prior to it.

[SaFe]

The most important question for me is:
Is it now possible to invade another country, maybe even claim one or two provinces and get a favourable peace treaty without destroying the other faction.
With the exception of Poland no other great countries during this timeframe were totally "absorbed" form the winner.
Maybe the winner installed a puppet regime, but it was still a independent( minus taxes, vassalage tributes or something else) country.
I would find it rather boring to conquer Europe with Napoleon and paint the map in my french blue colours.
Also the re-emerging of counties is not the same thing. Austria and Prussia for example were not destroyed by Napoleon. They still existed, although defeated.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Have anyone thought that it's SEGA who pushes CA to make another game? Perhaps CA would finish ETW if they could but with SEGA on their back they can't? AFAIK, ETW was very popular and it would be easy to use it's popularity to make another game with the same time period.

EDIT: Also, Orgahs should consider the fact that many of those who bought ETW never visit any of the forums and actually don't know how many faults ETW have.

[mlp071]

The MP campaign beta is still coming for ETW.

Very appropriate name for it , considering that rest of the game is still beta also.And thank you for letting us pay for beta testing your game

Now we will move on and waste yet more money for finished(highly unlikely) product that we actually were suppose to get at the first place.

[HopAlongBunny]

Have anyone thought that it's SEGA who pushes CA to make another game?

Yes. It also doesn't matter. An inferior product is just that; I do not doubt that CA could produce something worthwhile, its just that they don't. Point fingers anywhere you want, in the end I have to judge them on the product I receive.

[pevergreen]

Its simple fact that the community will never be happy.

I made a big post somewhere else, but this gmae is unfinished = unhappy.
Blizzard delays games until finished = unhappy.

deal with it.

[pevergreen]

Interesting find on the CA website:

Job vacancy:

Auction systems programmer -
ideally you will have worked on a shipped title including an in-game auction system, but you will certainly have good database and networking skills, including scalability and security.

Uhh...what? Like Auction as in MMO auction, selling items and so forth? If so...wow. What could this be for?

[antisocialmunky]

Is it the same CA studio that's doing NTW or is it the main one that did ETW?

[al Roumi]

Interesting find on the CA website:
Uhh...what? Like Auction as in MMO auction, selling items and so forth? If so...wow. What could this be for?

Doesn't sound like a great development to me, especially if it has anything to do with the mp beta...

Maybe you can buy your general Napoleon's saddle-cloth for a a morale booster to your army or something equally idiotic.

This whole thing is completely absurd. Who on earth at CA or SEGA thought it was a good idea to cut and run from ETW so quickly? And the cheek to email all subscribers to SEGA about being "ready for a challenge", well they are bloody running away from one.

meh.

[Durallan]

Just to be the Devils Advocate for a minute and throw a spanner in the works and make everyone think outside the square,

Most of the programming has been done in Empire Total War, considering NTW is using the same engine there isn't going to be a whole lot for the programmers to do, which they would more likely be spending time on getting the Campaign and Battle AI up a few notches, but as an open letter to CA and Sega, Again, if the CAI and BAI isn't up to scratch in your expansion (or up to scratch by the time its released), No more Total War games for me.

I do not expect the AI to do everything I think they should do (life isn't fair generally) but,

1 The AI needs to figure out how to play the game and have a chance of winning (forming alliances allying with like minded countries, Good relations etc) cause right now none of them get that big without player intervention or intentional non-intervention

2 There has to be some way to randomize the outcomes of the game or influence it (random events?), after all it is a game and we do not want to see history repeat itself everytime we play a campaign (do historically minded people agree?) unless the randomization process is the faction that the player choose's themselves and the world organises itself into its different alliances and factions. (or is this too much for the historically minded people?)

3 AI should learn to trade, utilize the trade nodes and manage its economy, they have given up in the later patches (is it really that hard to program the AI to be good at managing the empire? I suppose you want a bit of randomness so not every faction is the same but still...)

4 The AI needs to figure out how to protect its countries, IE don't guard the village, guard the fort or the capital, and don't send raiding parties unless they are excess units, DON'T BREAK UP YOUR ARMY to do it!

5 Better Sieges would be nice, I really don't know how you would do that but it is so lame that they run up to the walls, climb the walls, run to the flag and try to capture it one regiment at a time, coordinated assaults are needed! I know that must be hard for a bunch of routines but it must be done before the expansion is released!

I'm sure there are many other things that can be added to the list, but thats pretty much a bare minimum of STANDARD that I would expect as a consumer if I'm to purchase this expansion as well ( I Pre-Ordered Empire I thought it would be so awesome, and while I was pleasantly suprised with naval battle ( I know a few people were disappointed, but me being so desperate for some sort of age of sail naval simulator thats half decent, I didn't complain) and the shiney graphics, you hurt my feelings CA, you did.)

[gardibolt]

Nope. Wasted $50 on Empire, which won't work on my computer, so CA is all done getting money from me.

If you want me, I'll be playing M2TW.

[Equilibrium]

Gamestar, a german pc gaming magazine has published a preview from the gamescom at cologne:
http://www.gamestar.de/preview/strat...total_war.html

So I knocked up a quick translation for all you non-german speakers.

Napoleon: Total War

At the Gamescom we took a first look at Napoleon, the expansion to Empire: Total war.

Napoleon: Total War is not only gonna feature one campaign, but three. In the stand alone Addon for the strategy hit Empire:Total War you will follow the career of the just as powerhungry as well as small frenchman - from general to emperor. The first campaign will lead you to Italy, the second one to Egypt and the near east. The thirds campaigns focus will be the struggle for Europe.

In the first two campaigns you will only command the french army, while having the option of playing as another european nation in the last one. Just like the tutorial campaign in Empire: Total War, you will have to win one campaign to unlock the next. Hence if you feel like going to war as Prussia, you'll have to lead the French to victory beforehand.

Smaller campaign maps

The three campaigns of Napoleon: Total War do not take place on the regular Empire globe, but on special and smaller campaign maps. Napoleons first campaign focuses on northern Italy, the last one on european nations and the western russian border provinces. Take a note: provinces, plural.

Contrary to the very rough world map of empire(with France consisting of just two regions) the scenarios of Napoleon: Total War are divided up into many more areas.

In the campaigns of Napoleon: Total War historical missions will give you a general guideline. In Italy for example, Napoleon does not have to conquer all cites but just important population centres like Milan or Turin. Additionally there are different kind of troops available to the general in each theater. In Italy he commands only unexperienced regiments, in the near east battle proven veterans and mercenaries like camel riders.

Supply lines and Resources

Contrary to Empire you will have to care about the supply of your army, as your troops will continously suffer losses in difficult terrain like snow steppes, deserts and mountains. If one doesnt make sure his suppy lines are intact, he will soon face his Waterloo. To secure the supply of your troops you have to build depots and build up conquered farms. There are also new resources in place on the campaign map of Napoleon: Total War, contrary to Empire though they will not be a source of money but instead bring specific advantages with them. One certain italian province will provide especially robust horses, and through conquering that province you improve the strength of your cavalry.

Cities and Agents

You will expand cities in Napoleon: Total War in three different development paths: industrial, economical or intellectual. Industrial metropoles will provide you with the most advanced troops, economical centers will earn you more tax income and improve the supply of your troops. "Intellectual" cities not only make your citizens happier with buildings like operas, but also allow the recruiting of spies. These agents will replace the rakes of Empire and of course are used to spy on enemy armies and the like - an immense tactical advantage.

Armies and Generals

In the first two campaigns of Napoleon: Total War you'll best avoid casualties as much as possible, since supply is not only costly but recruitment is scheduled to take a lot longer than in Empire. Only in the last campaign there will be more troops at your disposal, since as an Emperor, Napoleon commands the whole french army.

You will not just recruit generals in Napoleon: Total War by clicking a button, but instead choose historical persons from a list of generals. Every one of those leaders will offer certain skills - one might be good at sieges while another one is more efficient at mountain combat. Hence you should choose your general always depending on where your armies are gonna be fighting.
In the real time battles every general now has an area of influence, all allied units within that area profit from a boost in morale. Therefore sending your general directly to the frontline now makes sense. Napoleon himself rides over the battlefields as well and has special talents like a warcry that improves the attack value of all nearby french troops.

Advancements on the battlefield

The developers are promising further gameplay innovations, for example cannon balls will leave their mark on the terrain, i.e. craters - just no major ones. "Our terrain is not completely deformable", says Creative Assembly director of communications, Kieran Brigden. But the craters will have an actual gameplay effect by hindering cavalry and providing limited cover.
Assaults on cities will play out more dynamically as it will take less time to garisson or clear buildings with infantry, which will allow the player to move their troops around more to be able to push back the enemy house by house.
In naval battles the warships profit from new abilities like being able to repair smaller damages themselves - limited of course.

Diplomacy

In the first two campaigns of Napoleon: Total War you won't have to mind about diplomatical finesse as the short frenchman is just a general, not a leader of a country. Only in the last campaign you'll have to care about dealing diplomatically with other countries.
There will be additional options like getting other nations to fight each other, Kieran Brigden did not want to reveal anything detailed. "Let's put it this way", he oracles "You'll be able to do more good to your friends and more bad to your enemies."

AI and Multiplayer

The AI combatants are supposed to be smarter in Napoleon: Total War, and be able to hand the new gameplay mechanics. At least Bigden says so. We can only wait, as Creative Assembly made the AI issues bigger with the patches for Empire: Total War rather than patching them.
Those who at last want to fight against a human adversary in the real time based campaign should be happy as Brigden promises that the beta test of the multiplayer mode for the regular Empire campaign will start before the release of Napoleon: Total War. You will be able to play together both via LAN or the internet, and the european campaign of Napoleon will be playable in this multiplayer mode as well. If this beta test will start early enough will will see at the latest point in the 1st 1. quarter of 2010, which is the scheduled release date of Napoleon: Total War

[econ21]

Contrary to the very rough world map of empire(with France consisting of just two regions) the scenarios of Napoleon: Total War are divided up into many more areas.

...

Contrary to Empire you will have to care about the supply of your army, as your troops will continously suffer losses in difficult terrain like snow steppes, deserts and mountains. If one doesnt make sure his suppy lines are intact, he will soon face his Waterloo.

These are two very welcome changes.

[Mailman653]

Sounds interesting.

[Yun Dog]

Ohh... I get it now.....

colour me red and spank my arse

I was the idiot who bought ETW!! when I shouldve waited and bought the finished NTW instead

Im sorry, silly me for not reading the small print that ETW was a testing release

Im a little DISAPPOINTED about this.

Oh NTW sounds wonderful ... ITs sounds like its everything ETW was sposed to be but wasn't

and yeh it makes me want to buy it


but...

Im afraid I will be the one to suffer for punishing this company for cheating me with ETW

so like Kingdoms I wont be buying NTW and yep I'll probably miss out on the best of the game

Ive really goto learn not to buy the testing title next time if I ever buy a TW again

I feel like I been POKED!!! and it may take some time for that feeling to pass.

[Herkus]

If I had known that CA is going to release a new stand alone game based almost on the same period, same engine, same system requirements and with many improved features, I wouldn't have bought Empire:TW for 60$ considering its current condition. Worst video game investment of my life.

[Tsavong]

To me it looks like a standalone add-on or an expansion in all but name. But based on about 3 images and the little info that has been released to the public I could be wrong.

Hopefully some of the fixes and improvements to the AI etc for Napoleon will make it to Empire as they use the same engine and we have this steam thing to give us updates.

As I like Empire, I prefer it to Rome and M2TW not as good as the original and best Medieval. I will probably buy it at some point.

[al Roumi]

Gamestar, a german pc gaming magazine has published a preview from the gamescom at cologne:
http://www.gamestar.de/preview/strat...total_war.html

So I knocked up a quick translation for all you non-german speakers.

Waow, thanks for the effort taken to translate that!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Well I don't think this is doing right by the fans who bought Empire, but it sounds pretty good.

[Basileus]

Lets not forget that it was the same with ETW, its easy to say this and that and the game is going to be awesome but it failed. All in all im very dissapointed and for the first time im not really looking forward to a CA title.

[Seneca]

I simply will not buy this game. ETW was a major scam IMO, and I stopped playing after a week, cause it was simply boring, I refuse to believe NTW is that much better.

One day CA might release a game again that is worthwile playing, untill then I'll be waiting for EB 2.

[Beskar]

Lusted, can you confirm whether or not this is an expansion (Like V. I., B. I., Alexander, or Kingdoms etc) or this is a brand new game in the sense of M2:TW is to R:TW.

Edit:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...68#post5804568

According to this, N:TW is a stand-alone game, they have done to E:TW what Valve did to Left4Dead. Pour honey in your ear with promises then repackage those into a new game for you to buy.

Perhaps I should have done what I did with the previous titles I own. Buy them all in a Era's boxset for £15 play them and enjoy them, and all the mods that go with them from over the years.

Also, when does E:TW actually get the mod tools released?

[Sheogorath]

I doubt there will be a response, but I feel compelled to ask as well.

Jack Lusted, what is your response to all the people who feel that ETW was basically a very expensive beta CA essentially conned them into? I'm feeling a little that way myself. I haven't moved into either the "OMG BUY" or the "OMG NEVER AGAIN" camp, but I feel the latter side has some legitimate concerns.

Why so soon? I mean, really, CA's marketing department REALLY should have anticipated this backlash. Do they just not care? What, if anything, will be done to address the concerns and objections brought forward by current ETW owners?

[Beskar]

Cynical response: "We don't care about you, the silent majority will still buy the game and we will be rolling it in, especially after we bribe reviewers to rate it higher than they such."

Optimistic response: "We will actually deliver on our promises, plus add even more to the game."

What will happen response: "-doesn't reply to question-"

[pevergreen]

According to this, N:TW is a stand-alone game, they have done to E:TW what Valve did to Left4Dead. Pour honey in your ear with promises then repackage those into a new game for you to buy.

L4D2 will be compatible with L4D. Obviously not new content, but still.

As my post above yours somewhere says, the IGN article states it is a new game, the evolution in the series.

So this thread title is wrong.